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wARMTH... FROM 6.0 TO 9.0

funny_polymath

Fractal Fanatic
So, I've been on my back with a terrible disc injury for 4 months, and am now just getting well enough to get back to my AXE.

I had been struggling, a lot, with my II. Although the amps (esp after 6.0) responded more like 'real' amps to me, I still had a 'coldness' that I'd never heard in my Ultra. When I got the Ultra, out of the box, it was the warmest piece of digital gear I'd ever heard. Subsequent changes to firmware 'cooled' it a bit, but it was still warmer than my II out of the box, or after FW 6.0. I tried killing the mids and upper mids on the global EQ, I tried lots of other stuff, but to no avail.

My basic sound is what I'd call a Fender amp, clean-to-breakup sound. More traditional, not high gain at all (though I do have a screaming, feebacky ODS-100 on my X channel for some solos).

Enter 9.0 beta, yesterday. Loaded it up and.. warmer! In fact, had to put some of the mids back on the global EQ. Anyone know exactly why? I am curious.

I'd originally intended to tone match my trusty fender Twin and pre-CBS Princeton for various patches, or if not tone match, than match by ear. But after tweaking away yesterday on my system (II--> Matrix GT1000FX 2U --> Art of Noise fEarfull FRFR 3-way composite enclosure), I turned on my Twin and... ferget it - what I'd gotten on the II was different, but also MUCH better. Much less honky sounding, more clarity, more ring, all good.

However, I could still do with a little more organic warmth.

So, any tips for even more warming up of a fairly clean strat to fenderish clean-to-breakup sound? I can post patches, but am interested in general ideas. I've heard mention of the advanced tab for the amp, and some other things, but few specifics.

Any advice deeply appreciated.
 

stratamania

Fractal Fanatic
Apparently Cliff, had an epiphany whilst you have been away, what exactly he did I guess we will not know but that may account for the differences you are hearing. 9.0 beta is quite something.

On a different note, glad to see your return to the forum and better health. Wish you well.

Footnote
It seems Cliff himself posted while I was typing.
 
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simeon

Axe-Master
also try raising sag - it's much more powerful in v9

try some different mics on the cab too...i love the U87

i'm recovering from a slipped disc at the moment as well. it's in my neck and pressing on the nerves that run down my left arm. i couldn't play at all for two weeks and i still can't hold down a barre chord, so i feel for you man...
 

clarky

Axe-Master
I think the killer thing when it comes to addressing the highs and how soft or aggressive they are [especially for more gainy tones]
is the cab you choose to match with the amp...

for my gainy tones I've found that FAS's own 4x12 25W is really gentle
but without lacking defniition or being oppressive low down
 

GM Arts

Power User
Agree 100% with the OP, also having some success with Cliff's suggestion in v9 (more so than versions 7 & 8 ), and also +1 on the sentiments on wishing you a continued recovery.

I have possibly a strange preference for much less saturation on lower notes than high, which worked easliy in v6 just by increasing the low-cut frequency and boosting some lows in the GEQ to compensate. This seems to need more radical surgery in later versions, such as increasing Definition to max.

I really want to be clear here that this is just about observations and options. v6 blew me away from day 1 and I've always thought that a new version would struggle to be "more awesomer" for my tastes. No question though that the newer versions are more realistic.
 
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FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
If you want less distortion on low notes there are several ways to achieve this:
1. Use the Low Cut.
2. Increase Definition.
3. Increase Xfrmr LF.

The first two reduce low frequency content going into the preamp, the last one reduces it going into the power amp (there's a hidden low-cut between the preamp and power amp but the user doesn't have access to this). So it depends on where you are getting the distortion from. If it's mostly preamp distortion, use #1 or #2. Otherwise use #3. You can add bass back with the Depth knob or in the EQ page.

The default settings are accurate for the amp being modeled. As amps become more modern, it seems people's taste agree with yours and many modern amps feature aggressive low-cut and then add bass back in the power amp. So what you are doing is "modernizing" your amp. For example, the HBE has a very high low-cut and then adds bass back with a fixed Depth circuit.

I go back and forth. Some days I like that clear bottom end associated with aggressive low-cut, other days I like that vintage sound with fuzzy bass. I was all into the modern sound and then I watched Song Remains the Same the other night and was just mesmerized with Paige's tone and the fuzz on the lower notes. He didn't use much gain so the notes were pretty clear to begin with. When he would dig in the bass would get nice and thick. Modern high-gain designs don't do that.
 

ccroyalsenders

Fractal Fanatic
I was all into the modern sound and then I watched Song Remains the Same the other night and was just mesmerized with Paige's tone and the fuzz on the lower notes. He didn't use much gain so the notes were pretty clear to begin with. When he would dig in the bass would get nice and thick. Modern high-gain designs don't do that.
+1. His tone on the DVD version of How the West Was Won during the Royal Albert Hall concert footage is a serious holy grail. Tried for that one for years.
 

cragginshred

Fractal Fanatic
Almost as important,... are you getting any physical therapy? Lumbar extension via prone press ups , stretch your hp flexors, calfs and hamstrings 3x daily...and ICE alot. 2 cups rubbing alcohol and 4 cups water in a freezer bag, place into a 2nd one backwards, get the air out and your golden.

Simeon your symptoms are not as straight forward, definitely get in to a physio with manual skills asap!
 

jakel

Experienced
Almost as important,... are you getting any physical therapy? Lumbar extension via prone press ups , stretch your hp flexors, calfs and hamstrings 3x daily...and ICE alot. 2 cups rubbing alcohol and 4 cups water in a freezer bag, place into a 2nd one backwards, get the air out and your golden.

Edit: removed line that wasn't there in original post.
Not sure what some of that means... I take it you're a PT? Interesting "ice bag." Have to remember that one for rough areas like the back.
 

jakel

Experienced
Interesting. The "reply with quote" added a line to your post. Forum bug? Maybe I should edit it out?
 

funny_polymath

Fractal Fanatic
also try raising sag - it's much more powerful in v9

try some different mics on the cab too...i love the U87

i'm recovering from a slipped disc at the moment as well. it's in my neck and pressing on the nerves that run down my left arm. i couldn't play at all for two weeks and i still can't hold down a barre chord, so i feel for you man...
I use the U87 on both my cabs, it is GREAT!

I am sorry you are suffering with the neck pain. I can only offer my hopes for a speedy recovery, and a list of the things that have helped me. Please feel free to contact me if you'd like more info:
Network Chiropractic
Ortho-Bionomy
Healthy-Back Program - this will, I hope, prevent future herniations etc. - is uses two specialized muscle isolation machines to strengthen the muscles of the lumbar spine and neck.
Hypericum Perforatum (homepathic remedy)
Ice
Meditation
and most important of all: TIME!
 

funny_polymath

Fractal Fanatic
Almost as important,... are you getting any physical therapy? Lumbar extension via prone press ups , stretch your hp flexors, calfs and hamstrings 3x daily...and ICE alot. 2 cups rubbing alcohol and 4 cups water in a freezer bag, place into a 2nd one backwards, get the air out and your golden.

Simeon your symptoms are not as straight forward, definitely get in to a physio with manual skills asap!

Thanks much! Yes, I'm doing the Healthy Back program, which uses two special machines that isolate the erector spinae muscles of the lumbar spine and neck, and I've just started (gingerly) doing semi-crunches again. I used to do 200 a day and then got lazy - and got a major disc herniation for my trouble! Never tried the alcohol with the ice - interesting! Ortho-Bionomy (of which I am also a junior-level practitioner) made the biggest difference. It has been and continues to be a profound learning experience, for me as a patient, and as a healer and body/energy worker.
 

funny_polymath

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks mate, I am seeing a physio at the moment and having weekly neck traction. I do seem to be improving slowly.
Simeon, see if there's a gym near you that hase this: Mike Arteaga's | Healthy Back

also, there are home-traction kits (an over the door thing with a bag of water) that may help. And inversion tables too. And if there's an ortho-bionomist nearby, I'll bet dollars to donuts that they'll rock you world: Society of Ortho-Bionomy - Find a Practitioner
 
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