UltraRes vs NormalRes

[lern2swim]

we obviously read things differently. However, English is not my native language

A sizable majority picked out the normal res segment as the UltraRes version (in other words, they thought it sounded better). Since we were told which was which, it's been pointed out that the original IR wasn't long enough to fully take advantage of UR. So... the options are:

A) short IRs sound worse after being processed into UltraRes IRs.

B) UltraRes just sounds worse than regular IRs.
or
C) People's ears are defective.

(UltraRes does less to improve a short IR isn't really an option here, because, again, people overwhelmingly picked the regular IR)

Does that clarify?

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Well sure but things aren't that black and white. If we'd pick an amp that is loose like f.ex. a Recto and then made this comparison people might prefer the UR because it's just a bit tighter. Different flavors... what ever the case is I think we know how big of a difference it will approximately be.

I'm just not 100% sure if people are simply trolling or why is everyone hyping the UR in all the FW13 clips in the recordings section? The clips would've most likely sounded just as great even with regular IR's. Maybe the IR's were too short.. maybe the IR's aren't even UR.

I'm too much of a realist to start hyping stuff while letting my emotions determine what sounds good and what doesn't. The Axe-Fx has sounded pretty amazing for years already. It's not going to be a night and day difference guys. Even the Standard Axe-Fx sounds good.

 

[jakel]

Well, since the poll asked which sounded like UR and not which sounded better, I picked the one that I thought had more bass (on my computer speakers mind you). So, if the test is valid at all (given the confusion on length), I learned something, for which I am thankful. Maybe those with major negativity have had a bad day and a couple of beers - don't let them get you down CK.

 

[lern2swim]

I'm just not 100% sure if people are simply trolling or why is everyone hyping the UR in all the FW13 clips in the recordings section? The clips would've most likely sounded just as great even with regular IR's. Maybe the IR's were too short.. maybe the IR's aren't even UR.

I'm too much of a realist to start hyping stuff while letting my emotions determine what sounds good and what doesn't. The Axe-Fx has sounded pretty amazing for years already. It's not going to be a night and day difference guys. Even the Standard Axe-Fx sounds good.

Placebo effect and group think. It's the same reason that, in this thread, the number of people saying that they like number 2 more has probably gone up since you told everyone which is which.

 

[fremen]

A sizable majority picked out the normal res segment as the UltraRes version (in other words, they thought it sounded better). Since we were told which was which, it's been pointed out that the original IR wasn't long enough to fully take advantage of UR. So... the options are:

A) short IRs sound worse after being processed into UltraRes IRs.

B) UltraRes just sounds worse than regular IRs.
or
C) People's ears are defective.

(UltraRes does less to improve a short IR isn't really an option here, because, again, people overwhelmingly picked the regular IR)

Does that clarify?

I never said which of the two versions I like more, never entered in that debate. I even didn't give it a critical listen, my guess was a very quick one based mostly on the waveform. I did hear a subtle difference but if I wanted to do do a real critical listen, I would have use headphones or shut down the loud fan that keep things bearable here (it's sweating hot in Mauritius, we are basically between two cyclones). However, your choice of either A, B and C points is highly debatable, these are twisted ways of looking at things

 

[fremen]

Well sure but things aren't that black and white. If we'd pick an amp that is loose like f.ex. a Recto and then made this comparison people might prefer the UR because it's just a bit tighter. Different flavors... what ever the case is I think we know how big of a difference it will approximately be.

I'm just not 100% sure if people are simply trolling or why is everyone hyping the UR in all the FW13 clips in the recordings section? The clips would've most likely sounded just as great even with regular IR's. Maybe the IR's were too short.. maybe the IR's aren't even UR.

I'm too much of a realist to start hyping stuff while letting my emotions determine what sounds good and what doesn't. The Axe-Fx has sounded pretty amazing for years already. It's not going to be a night and day difference guys. Even the Standard Axe-Fx sounds good.

I agree on all this. I like the idea of having ultrares, but the firmwares improvements since V9 are much more important imho, at least up to now

 

[antcarrier]

If Fremen is right and the source of this 'ultrares' IR is an IR of only 28ms, then that would make me wonder if something in the UR algorithm, or some other variable, might be altering the toanz? 28ms is shorter than a mono hirez IR (42ms), and most people can't hear much difference between mono hirez and mono lorez (21ms). 7ms difference in length should be super subtle, if not inaudible, but the difference in this clip is significant. I'll need to try an ultrarez IR soon to see what its like.

 

[Sixstring]

I listend to the clips before I read which one was the UR and I can't tell the difference between ether one. My guess is that this is still going to benefit the bass players more so then standard guitar players, great sounding sound though.

 

[rsf1977_again]

Well, i listened to both clips and i hear a definite difference for sure. Low res has a bigger looser low end but in an okay way. And the ultra res is tighter and less bassy. I could see either working in a mix. Cool test. Thanks Clark, for the digital Pepsi challenge. We should interrogate everything like this.

 

[rsf1977_again]

Here is the other thing. A non adjusted preset doesn't prove a whole lot. It proves there are differences between the two but it doesn't mean overall one is better. I bet if the low end was dialed in bigger on the ultra res things might be seen differently. This is a great conversation but i doubt the importance slightly.

 

[Narzugon]

Well sure but things aren't that black and white. If we'd pick an amp that is loose like f.ex. a Recto and then made this comparison people might prefer the UR because it's just a bit tighter. Different flavors.............

I agree for the most part. My initial reaction to your comparison (before scrolling down the thread) was that it was a very limited comparison. Or maybe one could say a very focused part of the spectrum. And that's not meant to be an attack on you or your opinions. So please people, don't get your panties in a wad because I agree to disagree. I like Clark and his recordings! Waving white flag here!

I'm just not 100% sure if people are simply trolling or why is everyone hyping the UR in all the FW13 clips in the recordings section? The clips would've most likely sounded just as great even with regular IR's. Maybe the IR's were too short.. maybe the IR's aren't even UR.

So what were your motives Mr. Clark Kent? J/K But it sounds like you were trying to bring the overly excited back down to earth? I can understand wanting to prove a point.

I'm too much of a realist to start hyping stuff while letting my emotions determine what sounds good and what doesn't. The Axe-Fx has sounded pretty amazing for years already. It's not going to be a night and day difference guys. Even the Standard Axe-Fx sounds good.

Try a more thorough comparison. I'd be interested in voting again as well as seeing the results.

Choose an amp and cab combo. Pick one that you think would best represent the median of a UR. My first thought is a Marshall type. But that's me.

Reamp so that both tracks have an identical performance. Choose one of the 10 freebie UR's that came with FW13 and then choose the matching regular IR from the OH library (assuming you have those).

What ever you choose to play, include a variety of sounds and techniques. Open distorted chords, chugga chugga's, vol backed off etc.

Pan single guitar center with no effects. Keep the recording simple and honest.

Keep up the good work!

 

[FractalAudio]

There is noticeably more bass in the first one which doesn't seem right. Typically UltraRes has more bass. You can see it when looking at the FFT plots. I'm wondering if the OP didn't get mixed up. Or perhaps adjusted something between takes unknowingly. I've never heard an UltraRes cab that has less bass than the normal version. And I've been listening to these for the last couple months. Strange. Add a little bass to the second one and they'd probably sound identical.

People always gravitate to more bass for solo guitar. It clutters up a mix though. The choice of tone and material isn't really a good demonstration of UltraRes. It's a generic, high-gain tone with no dynamics. Rather clinical and uninteresting. Not a bad tone certainly but nothing that can't be achieved with conventional IRs. UltraRes shines for more organic uses where you want the sound of the amp to show through. The subtle interactions between the power supply and power tubes give you low frequency transients. That in concert with the cabinet, room, mic and preamp produces a lot of detailed bass and midrange information that gets lost with conventional IRs. Give a listen to that Hiwatt/Fane clip in this forum for an example.

 

[Tone Seeker]

UltraRes shines for more organic uses where you want the sound of the amp to show through. The subtle interactions between the power supply and power tubes give you low frequency transients. That in concert with the cabinet, room, mic and preamp produces a lot of detailed bass and midrange information that gets lost with conventional IRs.

I had 15 minutes tonight after upgrading to try out UltraRes on some crunchy patches (Marshall and Triptik), then it was off to practice. At practice, on the fly, I dialled in a clean Carr Rambler patch using the bundled Ownhammer J12-PR UltraRes IR. It was easy to get lost in the lush clean tones. So sweet, and so rich.

Terry.

 

[fremen]

There is noticeably more bass in the first one which doesn't seem right. Typically UltraRes has more bass. You can see it when looking at the FFT plots. I'm wondering if the OP didn't get mixed up. Or perhaps adjusted something between takes unknowingly. I've never heard an UltraRes cab that has less bass than the normal version. And I've been listening to these for the last couple months. Strange.

So, in a dramatic turn of events... those who chose part 1 as ultrares were "right" - this is how ultrares should have sounded. funny

 

[is9582]

if you listen with phones theres a resonance on the low that isn't there on the first...it's subtle but it's there.

Yeah, I was also using phones. No way I'd have ever heard the difference on my speakers.

Any chance we can get an apples to apples comparison (like this was) with another UR that is a longer length??

 

[mba]

It's normal that the first seems to have more bass because room's reverb always make sound more trebly so the second and all the UR with more room will make the sound more trebly.

The power of room's reverb (in this cas UR) will be shown later when you will add your own reverb on your track in your DAW.(or in the Axe)
It will sound better, better definition and spacialisation effect.

 

[lauke-lux]

Sure. And I'd also love to test longer IR's if there are some available. This was just one of the first UltraRes IR's out there that Cliff himself posted for us to try out. Somehow I jumped to a conclusion that these would show us how good UltraRes actually is so I wouldn't go that far and say:



There is no need to feel threatened by this poll or my words and there's no point on defending UltraRes either unless you've hear it do a lot better in an A/B test. Until we get longer UltraRes IR's this is the closest thing to the truth.

Just realize that we're on the same side here. I'm in no way against free updates. :lol I want to maximize my tone and I want UltraRes to blow me away. These are the poll results and I didn't make them, you guys did. I didn't know the IR length. I assumed it was using UltraRes to the fullest because Cliff posted "free UltraRes IRs".

If you have resentment towards me in this situation then maybe you should take a second and think where it's actually coming from. Feeling bad because a study is saying your new toy isn't that much better than the old one? What's next? I purposefully made this poll so that it would seem this way? :lol C'mon guys...

Doesn't really make me want to contribute more to this forum. I don't mean to get all drama up in here but this always happens in polls. Someone's not happy with the results and starts blaming the poll and its creator that it's crap. Where's my "thanks for the hard work" medal. I'd love one of those.

Actually I'm quite happy with your test result as I wondered if I'd need to go see a med or a shrink, but finally all is OK...I couldn't make a real difference, ie at least not what is or what is not UR, or at least not for the time being. I play this on a small 2x300 Yamaha EMX512 FRFR in the attic and even at more pushed levels I agree that a crowd would not hear the difference, but OTOH FW13 (with all it's other features, save the details) IS a good change. Last week we recorded some rehearsal (FW12.04) things and it's sure, after analysis, that the amp lay more fine in the mix.

PLS Keep on the good work & don't freeze up there in the high north countries.

 

[NeoSound]

What really stood out to me with ultra-res is the difference in the neck and bridge pickups. I have a guitar I recently built that has the pup's screwed down tight to the wood. The neck pickup was slightly louder before v13 because of being closer to the strings, also naturally more bass. After upgrading to v13 and using ultra-res irs this effect was magnified drastically.
Awesome tone I just need to balance the pickups now.

 

[Heavyplayer]

This is one of those GuitarHack IR's that Cliff posted. I think it's called Edge-Half.

You're slipping man. That is one of the smaller GH files. Should've tested the Original lengths.

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

So after giving the answer the UR stock has gone up by 50% in the poll. :lol

I didn't get the clips mixed up. IMO you should easily be able to use your ears to tell which low end is tighter. I personally prefer the sound of the second part and I tweaked the preset in UR mode. I'm more than happy to share the preset I used for this so people can try it out. The IR is free, the patch is my live rig patch.

One thing that I did notice while opening my session again is that UR is a bit higher in volume. It's small... I mean you guys didn't really notice it that much, but my RMS meters are giving me almost 1dB more volume. So actually I should've probably lowered the volume of the UR version but I'm afraid it would make the normal res IR stick out as being better since people usually prefer more volume because it's same as more energy etc.