"Tone Matching" Preview

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that this is not even close to "profiling" like the KPA does it. It seems like he is taking an existing amp in the Axe II and "EQ Matching" it (for lack of a better word) to the source. Not that this is bad or anything, I just think that it is an important point if this is the case. For example, what if you tried to "Match" a Fender amp block to a Marshall amp? I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I think the clips sound great, I'm just curious how this really works and what the limitations are.
 
Just did a back flip off my upper deck into my 4' pool....I'm OK though, my axe standard saved me. Axe II is calling me though
 
timowens316 said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that this is not even close to "profiling" like the KPA does it. It seems like he is taking an existing amp in the Axe II and "EQ Matching" it (for lack of a better word) to the source. Not that this is bad or anything, I just think that it is an important point if this is the case. For example, what if you tried to "Match" a Fender amp block to a Marshall amp? I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I think the clips sound great, I'm just curious how this really works and what the limitations are.
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No one but Cliff can answer your questions at this point. He's clearly noted that there is indeed BOTH a amp/cab Tone Match *and* a MatchEQ Tone Match function though. He's also noted that he has not done any clips today of the Amp/Cab Tone Match because he doesn't want to piss off the other inhabitants of his house today.

Even in the KPA, you don't "profile" a dirty Marshall over the "Clean" profile type - you have to tell (or it figures out) what sort of tone you are profiling before you do it.
 
"Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that this is not even close to "profiling" like the KPA does it. It seems like he is taking an existing amp in the Axe II and "EQ Matching" it (for lack of a better word) to the source. Not that this is bad or anything, I just think that it is an important point if this is the case. For example, what if you tried to "Match" a Fender amp block to a Marshall amp? I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I think the clips sound great, I'm just curious how this really works and what the limitations are."


+1
 
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timowens316 said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that this is not even close to "profiling" like the KPA does it. It seems like he is taking an existing amp in the Axe II and "EQ Matching" it (for lack of a better word) to the source. Not that this is bad or anything, I just think that it is an important point if this is the case. For example, what if you tried to "Match" a Fender amp block to a Marshall amp? I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I think the clips sound great, I'm just curious how this really works and what the limitations are.
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From what I gather regarding Amp Matching,we will have to choose an amp block in the Axe-II and it will get matched to whatever reference tube amp/cab or modeler/profiler preset that we choose. I guess the amp block we choose will have to have some tonal relation to what is trying to be matched. Just a guess, and it's not clear yet if any internal pre-match prep tweaking will be needed!!

So certainly if I'm correct, then this will be different than the Kemper that profiles a tube amp without having to match it with any amp block in the Kemper. I think in the Kemper you just have to click a button to say if it's a distorted or clean tone you're about to profile.
Of course I have no idea exactly how this process will take place in the Axe, or which method will result in what people will consider a closer organic copy of the reference amps actual tone. Time will tell, and speculating is fun but can be way off base obviously.

I really hope the MatchEQ Tone Matching side of things is on par or better than using Ozone, because having this inside of the Axe will be a blast for me and so much more convenient!! Probably more so than the Amp Matching feature. I play lots of covers and enjoy trying to cop some of the classic VH tones and many others.

However Cliff implements these features, I'm sure they will be cool.
 
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Did I miss this, or has no one quoted the 5.00 firmware notes and how this tone matching might related to this little phrase right here, page 2, 5.00 release notes:

"Reworked nearly all amp models based on new 'amp matching' algorithms."
 
solo-act said:
Did I miss this, or has no one quoted the 5.00 firmware notes and how this tone matching might related to this little phrase right here, page 2, 5.00 release notes:

"Reworked nearly all amp models based on new 'amp matching' algorithms."
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Good find dude!! I certainly never noticed that. Interesting.
 
Mystery is not always a good thing....

Sometimes this board is way too cool for the room (bad thing)

If we are representing Fractal Audio in any way, we should be factual mixed with humility and maturity, otherwise it just sounds like one more partisan fan board, mindlessly rooting against whomever the current opponent appears to be....
 
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shotgunn said:
Axe II... The gift that keeps on giving.
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Shotgunn, I was immediately thinking of your Youtube video where you exhaustingly (And quite amazingly) replicated the Metalica tone. And now it looks like the whole process is going to be an "In-The-Box" process.
Those Stems should prove to be excellent for this!!
 
Sounds great, be interesting to see how the profiling technology deals with different pickup selections.
 
willowdale said:
Good find dude!! I certainly never noticed that. Interesting.
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Interesting indeed... but maybe it's something totally unrelated, just a similarity in naming. I'm not gonna expect it to be anything until we hear from the creator... the almighty Cliff.
 
Radley said:
Mystery is not always a good thing....

Sometimes this board is way too cool for the room (bad thing)

If we are representing Fractal Audio in any way, we should be factual mixed with humility and maturity, otherwise it just sounds like one more partisan fan board, mindlessly rooting against whomever the current opponent appears to be....
Click to expand...

+2

And the entertaining thing is,although I know as good(or better) as anybody else that music and guitar playing is highly emotional , that immediately posts are coming,based on 2 post(= 2 lines) by Cliff that one technology must be better then the other.

I simply wait and see,and prepare my unachievabale guitar tracks(Yes like other above limelight or Danny Gatton) .

So far since firmware 4 on Standard(my content Axe start) Cliff and/or Fractal Audio has never let me down.I also think ,as one of this (poor) cover players ,that I know a bit about the tone (of others).

My 2 cents

Roland
 
Awesome Idea, but i see a couple of problems in the Idea itself. As the Kemper seems to not find out his way to profile amps without taking the cabinet sound into the equation (thus the complaining about the inability to go into a power amp and then into a real cab), i see that with this tone-matching feature we're talking about matching a single amp block with a WHOLE guitar rig!! so it will be impossible to take out of the equation A LOT of equipment: cabs, mic, outboard AND (!!!) the GUITAR!! yes because recorded tracks are made from guitars....am i wrong??

I have an AXE FX2 coming inbound and i'm really happy that some competition is coming through, my comment was made just to help cliff thinking about the weak points of this feature.
 
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Wow ! The applications of this could be very interesting for bass players too ! If the tone matching works with bass ?
 
Radley said:
Mystery is not always a good thing....

Sometimes this board is way too cool for the room (bad thing)

If we are representing Fractal Audio in any way, we should be factual mixed with humility and maturity, otherwise it just sounds like one more partisan fan board, mindlessly rooting against whomever the current opponent appears to be....
Click to expand...

Glad to see common sense does exist here. It's not that bad this board, but it has moments.
 
Radley said:
Mystery is not always a good thing....

Sometimes this board is way too cool for the room (bad thing)

If we are representing Fractal Audio in any way, we should be factual mixed with humility and maturity, otherwise it just sounds like one more partisan fan board, mindlessly rooting against whomever the current opponent appears to be....
Click to expand...
Thank you.
And this is why I am taking an extended break; my brain is not wired for this type of "socializing." I have expressed elsewhere about my reservations when considering to post anything here. There are devs I have worked for/with before that ended up surrounded by this, and I am not up to the sifting.
 
willowdale said:
From what I gather regarding Amp Matching,we will have to choose an amp block in the Axe-II and it will get matched to whatever reference tube amp/cab or modeler/profiler preset that we choose. I guess the amp block we choose will have to have some tonal relation to what is trying to be matched. Just a guess, and it's not clear yet if any internal pre-match prep tweaking will be needed!!
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That would be my guess for TONE Matching.
If the amp matching would depend on that, too many people would pick the wrong one to start with and the crybabying would get overwhelming.
I would think it's not that difficult for Cliff's algorithms to preselect its own amps, tonestacks, ... and then possibly add a corrective factor in the form of an IR (a smaller version would probably do).

The exciting part is that could also make Tone Matching easier than normal.
Normally you have to preselect stuff like your guitar+pickup and drive/MV here, but if Amp Matching could come in as well for the drive/MV part, it could be made easier for people that would like that. It would be the typical "step above the rest" solution we are used to from Cliff ;)
 
I've been thinking about what practical use I might have for this upcoming feature set. It just occured to me that 'Tone Matching' might be very useful in the completion of unfinished recording projects where matching the tone of tracks already recorded would allow one to continue tracking on nearly any incomplete song (assuming it works this way). My brother and I have a project like this - one interrupted some time ago. We have known for some time now that the inability to duplicate the captured tones in these recordings (the amps are gone as are some of our notes) means that we would have to scrap some excellent tracks and re-track them. If we could match the sound of isolated guitar and bass tracks it would save some really great performances and a bunch of re-work. This would be pretty d@mn cool! :)
 
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