• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Tap tempo issues

neale dunham

Inspired
Hi guys

Got my Fc-12 finally.

Super easy to configure, even for a numpty like me! However, and it doesn't take much to confuse me.....

I have set a switch on the fc-12 to control tap delay. When I open the Delay block and hit the tap tempo switch, it changes tempo on almost every hit?

I was hoping it would trigger the start on the first hit and measure the time distance to the next hit.

Instead it changes value on every hit of the switch. Ive probably got something configured incorrectly but don't know what if anybody can help here?
 

chris

Legend!
I was hoping it would trigger the start on the first hit and measure the time distance to the next hit.
That’s not what it’s doing? What is “every hit”? Why are you hitting it more than 2 times?

I can’t visualize what you’re doing.
 

JoKeR III

Veteran
Hi guys

Got my Fc-12 finally.

Super easy to configure, even for a numpty like me! However, and it doesn't take much to confuse me.....

I have set a switch on the fc-12 to control tap delay. When I open the Delay block and hit the tap tempo switch, it changes tempo on almost every hit?

I was hoping it would trigger the start on the first hit and measure the time distance to the next hit.

Instead it changes value on every hit of the switch. Ive probably got something configured incorrectly but don't know what if anybody can help here?
The default for tap tempo is set to "Average" in the Setup menu. This averages the taps in relation to the current tempo which may take a few hits until you get the tempo you're looking for. This is beneficial if you're using a single preset for multiple songs and drastic tempo changes. Keeps the repeats from sounding funky or "jumpy" as the tempo changes. Also keeps you from having to be precise, 5 or 6 hits averaged vs 2 right on the money.

Personally, I prefer the "Last Two" setting, meaning that you get the tempo closer to where you want it after two hits. Subsequent hits can help you dial it in but again, the last two hits dictate the final tempo.
 

neale dunham

Inspired
Chris,

This is my point, I cant establish how the axe is determining the tap tempo?

I am not hitting more than twice. It changes on every cycle.

Normally on boss type effects for example, you press once to activate and once to stop. The time in between the presses of the switches or buttons or whatever tap tempo device you are using determines the tempo of the delay.
For example, Usually, if you press the tap tempo button and then press again 0.5 seconds later the device will set your delay to 500ms.

When I do this on the axe however, it seems that every time I hit the switch I have assigned to be the tap tempo, the milliseconds change in the delay block?

For example I hit the tap tempo and the delay block will read 350ms. I hit it again and the ms change randomly to 730 the press again and this time nothing will happen, press again and the ms change to 1780 or even higher??

I think ~Yek may have the answer above.
 

chris

Legend!
I am not hitting more than twice. It changes on every cycle.


For example I hit the tap tempo and the delay block will read 350ms. I hit it again and the ms change randomly to 730 the press again and this time nothing will happen, press again and the ms change to 1780 or even higher??

I think ~Yek may have the answer above.
i don't think the Average vs Last 2 will fix this, if you're describing it accurately.

probably just an example, but i want to point out that you say you are not hitting it more than twice, then your example shows you hitting it 4x.

on the first tap, it shouldn't change anything. it should display what it's currently set at. it does take 2 hits to change the tempo, as 1 hit doesn't tell it the new tempo.

when you say it changes "randomly" - do you know for a fact you aren't hitting it the 2nd time at 730ms?

on that 4th press above, did you wait more than 1 second?

the ms displayed depends on the Tempo you've set as well. is it set to a 1/4 note? something else? can you show a video of what's going on?

there aren't many settings for Tap Tempo. is there a Hold function on your Tap switch? if so, it means the "tap" will register on the upstroke of that switch, so if you're sorta holding it down and letting go randomly (before the Hold function happens), this could explain it being slightly off from your intention.

but what you've described i don't think is technically possible.

a video will solve this.
 

neale dunham

Inspired
The reason I have said "randomly" is because the time between presses is not in proportion to the amount of time I have left between presses of the switch.

I haven't pressed 4 times either. I am merely trying to illustrate by means of an example what happens every time I press the tap tempo switch.

There is clearly a different parameter at play here that determines when the tap tempo triggers and when it reads the gap. I just need to know what it is.

As Ive already mentioned, it does not work in a conventional manner. I have owned plenty of rack units over the years all with tap tempo functions.
Even my Rocktron Replifex (Yes, that's how old I am!) had one. And it worked in exactly the same manner I described above. Press once to activate press again and the tempo is logged.

Obviously the Axe does not work in this manner. I just wanted know how it works?
 

neale dunham

Inspired
If have understood this correctly, It takes the first press of the assigned tempo switch on the fc-12 to display the current tempo.

The second and third presses are what actually take the tempo readings?
 

chris

Legend!
If have understood this correctly, It takes the first press of the assigned tempo switch on the fc-12 to display the current tempo.

The second and third presses are what actually take the tempo readings?
you can press 2 times and set a tempo. please try that. press once. press again. then you have a new tempo.

it can't know a new tempo or interval by just pressing once.

again, do you have a Hold function set on that switch? is your TEMPO parameter in the delay block set to 1/4?
 

notalemming

Fractal Fanatic
If have understood this correctly, It takes the first press of the assigned tempo switch on the fc-12 to display the current tempo.

The second and third presses are what actually take the tempo readings?
Yes to both. You need to tap a minimum of 2 times to establish a new tempo.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Note that Tap Tempo is NOT delay time.

It is tempo in BPM.

The time between "taps" of is setting Beats Per Minute.

The tempo can then be used with things like Delay to set to be a subdivision of the tempo.
 

neale dunham

Inspired
Thanks Unix,
I think I understand more thoroughly the difference between delay time in milliseconds and Bpm. Which is essentially the overarching parameter from which the delay time is calculated.

Chris. Making a video is not an option, unfortunately I don’t have the equipment to provide a decent enough perspective.

There is no hold function selected and the tempo is set to 1/4.

I think I know where we are getting confused here.

I want to use the tap tempo as a permanent switch on my pedalboard.
For a live situation.
I have set it on the bottom right switch for every preset I use live.

Now, this is what is happening,

Press once: the bpm for the delay is activated
Press twice : the bpm for the delay is calculated and displayed in the delay block in milliseconds.

Now if I decide that the tempo has not matched correctly, as soon as I press the button again (once) to perform another tap tempo the value displayed in the delay block jumps to something unrelated to the bpm or length of time I just pressed.

I would expect that once you have logged a bpm within the delay block you are then at liberty to update that tempo by performing another two clicks of the switch as described above.

Instead the delay block shows a time value that does not correspond to the amount of time I have left between the two clicks of the switch and instead updates to something random on the very first click of the switch.

I cannot be any more specific than that.

Why does it do this?
 

iaresee

Moderator
Moderator
Why does it do this?
Do you have your Axe-Fx set to two taps or averaging for BPM calculation? The behavior depends on that setting. As @yek mentioned earlier, the behavior differences are described here: http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Tempo#Tapping_tempo

This can be best explained with a chart:

Tap123456
Time Since Previous Tapno-op500 ms700 ms450 ms600 ms510 ms
Effective Tempo (2-tap)no-op500 ms700 ms450 ms600 ms510 ms
Effective Tempo (Average)no-op500 ms600 ms550 ms562 ms552 ms
 
Last edited:

neale dunham

Inspired
Iaresee,
I think you and Yek are correct but I would like to rule out any other issues first as Chris might have a different solution.

I will try your two tap suggestion report back...

Thanks.
 

chris

Legend!
Now if I decide that the tempo has not matched correctly, as soon as I press the button again
this is the information we've been missing this entire time. that's why i asked if you've only pressed it twice, but you've pressed it again a 3rd time.

this 3rd press is using the 2nd press's information to determine the time. it includes the last time you pressed it.

set the Tap Tempo to use "Last 2 Presses". it's probably set on Average.

set to Average, it will average all presses within an amount of time (i think it's 2 seconds or so). so if you press it a 3rd time within those 2 seconds, it will average all 3 presses, and you'll have a weird tempo.

you are pressing it more than two times, which is the point i was getting at.

even if it is set to Last 2 right now, always press it twice at least to determine a new tempo. but you'll definitely want it set to "Last 2" in the Setup page.

you haven't waited long enough for the "tempo timeout" to stop using your tap data.

the video would have showed us the rate at which you're tapping the switch, and would have shown us that you're pressing more than the "two time" you said within that timeout interval.
 
Last edited:

iaresee

Moderator
Moderator
@neale dunham please see my post. I updated with a chart to better explain the behavior. I think I've correctly described the "two tap" setting behavior! Might be not quite correct, but I'll wait for someone else to wade in and say so.

That first tap shows you the BPM but it also starts the system looking for that second tap in order to change the tempo. When it stops looking for that second tap I'm not 100% certain, but it should be very soon after the max tempo value which is like 2 seconds, right? (I'm not in front of my unit so I don't know for certain)
 

Rex

Legend!
There is always a tempo; always a BPM. Tapping once doesn't "activate" it. It just displays it.

@chris hit the nail on the head. When you don't like the tempo you get after two taps, and you tap again, that's a third tap. And it's been a long time since your second tap, so the Axe calculates a slow tempo, with low BPM
 
Top Bottom