Some Confusion and Questions About VU Preset Leveling

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Anthony David

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I want to preface this by saying that I am not a professional musician. I am a bedroom player who sometimes helps his friends out by playing gigs. I say this because I am probably going to ask some stupid questions and I just want you to know that I don't know anything about this stuff. So here goes.

First of all, if I set my amp volume to twenty decibels from the VU screen, the AxeFX shuts down and restarts. It does this also when I set amp level to twenty in the amp block. I don't use amp level this high, just an observation. Is this normal?

Second, I don't quite understand how you are supposed to level presets with the meter. The numbers jump around so much I can't seem to find an average across multiple presets. The way I was using it is to keep strumming at a consistent dynamic and hope to find an average level. Is this the correct method for using the meters?

Lastly, I noticed that changing the level in the amp block has a rather drastic effect on the VU meter in the cab. For example, I can set drive in the cab preamp to 2.5 and the amp level to zero. Then I raise the amp level in the utility VU screen. Now I must lower the drive in the cab because it is too much. So my question is, is this expected behavior? It seems like it's a bit crazy to adjust fifty presets in the utility screen, just to adjust them all again in the cab screen. It would be more logical to me if the VU meter allowed you to adjust level in the output mixer, rather than the amp block, so you would not have to do everything twice. For now, it makes much more sense to just adjust output mixer level by ear per preset.

So those are my questions. I am sorry if it has all been discussed before and they are stupid questions. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Anyone have an answer for question 3? I would like to use the VU meter for preset leveling very much, but not if it's going to make me edit each preset again. I assume my first question is referring to a bug.
 
Your axe shuts down and restarts?? Mines never done that. Maybe it's a bug, I haven't seen it happen yet.

I don't have much experience with the cab preamps yet so can't help you there, but I rely on my ears as you suggested.
 
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randolfo said:
Your axe shuts down and restarts?? Mines never done that. Maybe it's a bug, I haven't seen it happen yet.

I don't have much experience with the cab preamps yet so can't help you there, but I rely on my ears as you suggested.
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I can reproduce it consistently by setting amp volume to twenty decibels. Fortunately, it is of no real consequence to me, I don't go that high with it. I was just curious if it was normal.
 
Rex said:
It's not normal.
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The Axe restarting isn't normal or the interaction between the cab preamp and utility VU meter is not normal? I am much more concerned with the latter unless the former would indicate that something is wrong with my device.
 
It sounds to me like a power supply issue. A heavier load is causing it to boink out. Either it's not being fed well, or it isn't dealing with what it's fed well. I'd contact support. They see a wide variety of problems and are more likely to have better advice.
 
Thank you all very much, I will contact them with the remaining relevant portions of my original post in the morning. Another question, if FAS needs me to ship the device back for repair, how much does that typically cost? I ask because I live off of disability and have very little to spare as far as money goes.
 
AnthonyZ said:
The Axe restarting isn't normal or the interaction between the cab preamp and utility VU meter is not normal? I am much more concerned with the latter unless the former would indicate that something is wrong with my device.
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"Lastly, I noticed that changing the level in the amp block has a rather drastic effect on the VU meter in the cab."
This is normal. As you raise the amp level, it sends a stronger/weaker signal to the cab block, the VU meter in the Cab block picks it up. If if it adjusted the level in the output mixer, you have to make the change up to 8x per preset. Once change for every scene. Out mixer levels are set per scene. If the level was set at the cab level block, then people who do not use cab emulation would not be able to benefit from the leveling capability.

Changing amp levels will effect any non-linear effect following it. Things like motor drive/preamp drive in the cab block, drive blocks, drive in any off the effects blocks, ducking effect in delay/reverb, compressors (unless side-chaining is used), etc.


I cannot recreate your crashing issue. Does it happen in all presets? the heavy load theory does really sound viable because CPU load does not in crease whether the amp level is at 0 or 20. It could be a issue with your unit or a bug that you discovered because of a combination of settings.
 
It's difficult to say for sure, but I've shipped boxes between Michigan and California of the size/weight we're talking about here for about $25. Your mileage may vary. Also, if it's warranty work, you may only have to go one-way. Fractal might cover the return. That's the way it worked out for me with an MFC101 issue I had a couple years ago.
 
javajunkie said:
"Lastly, I noticed that changing the level in the amp block has a rather drastic effect on the VU meter in the cab."
This is normal. As you raise the amp level, it sends a stronger/weaker signal to the cab block, the VU meter in the Cab block picks it up. If if it adjusted the level in the output mixer, you have to make the change up to 8x per preset. Once change for every scene. Out mixer levels are set per scene. If the level was set at the cab level block, then people who do not use cab emulation would not be able to benefit from the leveling capability.

Changing amp levels will effect any non-linear effect following it. Things like motor drive/preamp drive in the cab block, drive blocks, drive in any off the effects blocks, ducking effect in delay/reverb, compressors (unless side-chaining is used), etc.


I cannot recreate your crashing issue. Does it happen in all presets? the heavy load theory does really sound viable because CPU load does not in crease whether the amp level is at 0 or 20. It could be a issue with your unit or a bug that you discovered because of a combination of settings.
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Since there are obviously additional problems with any current parameter we assign VU leveling to, is it feasible for FAS to create a once-per-preset master volume parameter in the output mixer and attach the VU leveler to that? I really don't see amp volume as a viable option if changing it also changes so many other things. Leveling a preset shouldn't require going through and editing each preset afterwards, that defeats the convenience that the VU leveler was supposed to offer in the first place. If that's just how it is, I'll use my ears happily, the VU meter just seemed like a more convenient way to do it.

As for the crashing, I had the Axe on for about four hours today for rehearsing. I was able to do it across several patches many times throughout that time frame. The device has been off for about two hours now, I just booted it up to see if it was happening on every single preset and now I can't make it happen even once. I dunno what the heck is going on there, but an inconsistency like this makes me nervous to gig with it. What could explain this?
 
Cagey said:
It's difficult to say for sure, but I've shipped boxes between Michigan and California of the size/weight we're talking about here for about $25. Your mileage may vary. Also, if it's warranty work, you may only have to go one-way. Fractal might cover the return. That's the way it worked out for me with an MFC101 issue I had a couple years ago.
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Thank you! That is comforting.
 
AnthonyZ said:
Since there are obviously additional problems with any current parameter we assign VU leveling to, is it feasible for FAS to create a once-per-preset master volume parameter in the output mixer and attach the VU leveler to that? I really don't see amp volume as a viable option if changing it also changes so many other things. Leveling a preset shouldn't require going through and editing each preset afterwards, that defeats the convenience that the VU leveler was supposed to offer in the first place. If that's just how it is, I'll use my ears happily, the VU meter just seemed like a more convenient way to do it.
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I wouldn't call it "additional problems". in many (most) cases adjusting Amp level will not affect your tone. It only does so to the effects named by Javajunkie, and that's very logical.

As a matter of fact the Axe behaves much better in this regard than traditional systems. Increasing the output level of an analog amp will affect the input level of any effects processor after the amp. If you don't want to use Amp level, use the main level slider in the Output block on the grid instead. But you have to apply that to each scene.

Leveling a preset shouldn't require going through and editing each preset afterwards, that defeats the convenience that the VU leveler was supposed to offer in the first place.
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"was supposed to": well, that's up to the designer and clearly he designed it in the way he wants it to act. Speaking for myself: I would NOT want the levelling to be applied to each preset automatically.

I used the VU levelling to go through 90 presets. Took me about 20 minutes I think. Gigged with those and they were perfectly fine.
 
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