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small number of original FX8s for $1099

welshboyo

Regular
Sigh.

I've been trying to sell mine to fund an AX8 for months. I see I have to lower the price again. :(
Gee, yeah, thanks Fractal.....

Same here, mine is for sale for the incoming AX8 purchase, and this just makes it a whole lot harder to sell....

Only blessing for me is that I'm UK based and these are only available in US, but still.........
 

BCy2k

Inspired
I thought about selling my FX8 to help fund an AX8, but decided not to once it became clear how difficult Fractal had made things. I'm happy with my FX8 and I intend to hang on to it, but if I ever make a future Fractal purchase it will probably happen in the used market.
 

Jalevinemd

Inspired
I'm not a fan boy and have never found the need to kiss anyone's ass, but I gotta say that all the negative postings about Fractal's approach here really isn't fair. As I've said, I'm sure that the Version II FX8 was created in an effort to be able to use the same chassis for both the FX8 and AX8. This translates to increased productivity (who hasn't bitched about wait times?) and lower overhead. These are two factors which help to keep the retail price more reasonable. That's the responsible thing for any company to do. What Fractal owes its consumers are things like unparalleled quality and customer service. They have clearly fulfilled their obligations here. They don't owe it to us to raise the price of a new product to make it easier for us to sell our used ones and it's not wrong of them to lower the price of overstocked first generation products they are trying to unload.
 

TRTTRTTRT

Veteran
I'm not a fan boy and have never found the need to kiss anyone's ass, but I gotta say that all the negative postings about Fractal's approach here really isn't fair. As I've said, I'm sure that the Version II FX8 was created in an effort to be able to use the same chassis for both the FX8 and AX8. This translates to increased productivity (who hasn't bitched about wait times?) and lower overhead. These are two factors which help to keep the retail price more reasonable. That's the responsible thing for any company to do. What Fractal owes its consumers are things like unparalleled quality and customer service. They have clearly fulfilled their obligations here. They don't owe it to us to raise the price of a new product to make it easier for us to sell our used ones and it's not wrong of them to lower the price of overstocked first generation products they are trying to unload.
I know why you say that, but you can find any number of posts, including many that do things like make demos for Fractal that say things like, "sure just try it and if you don't like it you can easily flip it without losing much money".

And as a rule Fractal hasn't done what they've done with the FX8 previously, so no one would expect to happen if they bought an FX8. I PERSONALLY wouldn't have bought one as quickly if I'd thought I'd be unable to sell it without losing a crapload of money (relative to the initial cost).

My requirements as a musician changed pretty dramatically, and I wanted to buy an AX8, and mostly fund it by selling my FX8.

That is now utterly impossible, due to the fact that there's a new version coming, hot on the heels of the MK1, that's better, and cheaper. So it greatly devalued my purchase and means that I just took a bunch of money and threw it in the trash.

Then they dumped some extremely cheap MK1s on the market just to make sure that anyone wanting a MK1 could get one cheaper new than used.

To be clear of the values being discussed. I paid €1600 for my FX8. Which is 1800 USD. Less than a year after buying it they discontinued it, lowered the price by a third, then have dumped some MK1s onto the market for 700USD less than a new MK1.

I have had a cash offer of €800 so far, after months and months or trying. If I took that I'd lose HALF the money I spent AND then I'd have to spend €1700 for an AX8. Plus the €800 I lost on the FX8. Meaning my AX8 would cost me €2500 or about 2800 USD.

So you know, f*ck me I guess.

Which I wouldn't mind as much if the world and their cousin hadn't reassured me (and anyone else listening) that Fractal gear was legendary for retaining it's value, so I could buy without fear of getting hosed.
 

philipacamaniac

Fractal Fanatic
I know why you say that, but you can find any number of posts, including many that do things like make demos for Fractal that say things like, "sure just try it and if you don't like it you can easily flip it without losing much money".

And as a rule Fractal hasn't done what they've done with the FX8 previously, so no one would expect to happen if they bought an FX8. I PERSONALLY wouldn't have bought one as quickly if I'd thought I'd be unable to sell it without losing a crapload of money (relative to the initial cost).

My requirements as a musician changed pretty dramatically, and I wanted to buy an AX8, and mostly fund it by selling my FX8.

That is now utterly impossible, due to the fact that there's a new version coming, hot on the heels of the MK1, that's better, and cheaper. So it greatly devalued my purchase and means that I just took a bunch of money and threw it in the trash.

Then they dumped some extremely cheap MK1s on the market just to make sure that anyone wanting a MK1 could get one cheaper new than used.

To be clear of the values being discussed. I paid €1600 for my FX8. Which is 1800 USD. Less than a year after buying it they discontinued it, lowered the price by a third, then have dumped some MK1s onto the market for 700USD less than a new MK1.

I have had a cash offer of €800 so far, after months and months or trying. If I took that I'd lose HALF the money I spent AND then I'd have to spend €1700 for an AX8. Plus the €800 I lost on the FX8. Meaning my AX8 would cost me €2500 or about 2800 USD.

So you know, f*ck me I guess.

Which I wouldn't mind as much if the world and their cousin hadn't reassured me (and anyone else listening) that Fractal gear was legendary for retaining it's value, so I could buy without fear of getting hosed.
Apples and oranges. The price of the remaining stock of FX8 MK1 units was in USD for the US market. You're comparing it to the regular European import distributor price converted to USD, which is significantly higher than what the original FX8 USD price was in the US.

The FX8 previously cost $1299 in the US, and the MKII now costs $1249 (only $50 cheaper). The closeout deal on MK1s was a US-only one time only and only shaved $200 off the price.
 

TRTTRTTRT

Veteran
Apples and oranges. The price of the remaining stock of FX8 MK1 units was in USD for the US market. You're comparing it to the regular European import distributor price converted to USD, which is significantly higher than what the original FX8 USD price was in the US.

The FX8 previously cost $1299 in the US, and the MKII now costs $1249 (only $50 cheaper). The closeout deal on MK1s was a US-only one time only and only shaved $200 off the price.
It's not apples and oranges when people see that as the current value of a new MK1. Which a few people have used to try and lowball me with FTR.

And btw if I might add, weren't we all told repeatedly that the price of the FX8 relative the AX8 was in the hardware?

So if the hardware is now a third cheaper why is the AX8 so much more expensive?

Or was that just a line to move the rest of the FX8s?

As you can tell I feel pretty burned...
 

welshboyo

Regular
It's not apples and oranges when people see that as the current value of a new MK1. Which a few people have used to try and lowball me with FTR.

And btw if I might add, weren't we all told repeatedly that the price of the FX8 relative the AX8 was in the hardware?

So if the hardware is now a third cheaper why is the AX8 so much more expensive?

Or was that just a line to move the rest of the FX8s?

As you can tell I feel pretty burned...
You are not alone... I feel pretty miffed at this too, lost a wad of cash on this within a year due to this new version 2 and the extra kick in the balls with the US blowout deals.

Every enquiry I get on mine the 1st question is always "which version is it?" and is purely a knock down tactic by the potential buyer.

And then the whole I can get one new comments...

I have had my fingers well and truly burnt by Fractal and once this sells I won't be coming back.....
 

philipacamaniac

Fractal Fanatic
So if the hardware is now a third cheaper why is the AX8 so much more expensive?
I'm not great at math, so I generally like to type it out...
  • FX8 MK1 was $1299 USD in the US
  • FX8 MK2 will be $1249 USD in the US, $50 cheaper than the original. So that's a 3.8% decrease in price, probably reflecting the reduced manufacturing costs of using a more similar chassis for both the FX8 and AX8.
  • The special one-time-only closeout deal of $1099 (USD in the US) didn't reflect anything with the actual "hardware cost" or value of the product. It was a sale to clear inventory. Regardless, $200 cheaper for the closeout is still only a 15% decrease in the price from the original.
  • Nowhere in any sale was there a 33% decrease, to make it "a third cheaper"
  • $1099 was never a price available to customers in Europe/UK, since you can't buy direct from Fractal. If they had offered a closeout deal of MK1s in Europe, it would have been priced by G66, and probably would have been 15% cheaper than what the original FX8 was priced at in Europe (more than $1099 for sure, because of VAT and import duties, etc)
 
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iaresee

Moderator
Moderator
Stop buying gear as an investment: problem solved. It's a tool, like a car, and it depreciates. Full stop.

You weren't "burned" or "bitten" by Fractal because they continue to evolve the tools they offer. You were burned by your misunderstanding of depreciating assets. The world does not work the way you think it works if you are feeling "burned" here.

If you think depreciation on Fractal gear is big, wait until you drive your first new car off the dealer lot...
 

TRTTRTTRT

Veteran
Stop buying gear as an investment: problem solved. It's a tool, like a car, and it depreciates. Full stop.

You weren't "burned" or "bitten" by Fractal because they continue to evolve the tools they offer. You were burned by your misunderstanding of depreciating assets. The world does not work the way you think it works if you are feeling "burned" here.

If you think depreciation on Fractal gear is big, wait until you drive your first new car off the dealer lot...
Here's the thing, the FX8 is the only modern thing they sell that has depreciated that much. And it happened because they decided to release a MK2 of just the FX8, a year after they released the first version, and they decided to make it a lot cheaper. They haven't done that with any other product they've released.

So, comparing to other products is a not accurate in this case.

Here's a used AX8 selling for $1500:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fractal-ax8.1742830/

On the other hand you've seen a few people telling you that wouldbe buyers of FX8s are using what fractal did to drive down the price dramatically. Literally the best offer I've had is HALF of what I paid for it. That's NOT what is common with most Fractal products. And is certainly - based on my own experience - due to these pricing shenanigans. If they had not done this the value of the FX8 would be higher, and we saw that because they sold for a lot more before the MK2 was announced.
 

paranoid

Fractal Fanatic
Is 50$ a lot cheaper? sounds like the fire may have been buying before knowing what was wanted. I am sure that whether or not fractal would ever drop product prices across the board, there products will still do as designed, and if bought new they will be equally supported. They released the XL+ a year after I bought an XL, I never even gave it a thought, My XL still does what it did when I first got it(I still also have an AXE FX II, and Ultra they both still do as designed). One should never buy modern gear in the thoughts of resale value.
 

iaresee

Moderator
Moderator
Here's the thing, the FX8 is the only modern thing they sell that has depreciated that much. And it happened because they decided to release a MK2 of just the FX8, a year after they released the first version, and they decided to make it a lot cheaper.
Let's get one thing clear: they made it cost 3.8% less. That's not "a lot". Not by anyone's definition of "a lot".

And this isn't unique to Fractal. This is common to all products produced by all companies. The difference here is people who misunderstand what consumables are and how depreciation works. They've enjoyed a far-too-good depreciation rate on their tools and this just nudged the depreciation curve to be more inline with every other consumable that gets released.

They haven't done that with any other product they've released.
Untrue. They do stock selloffs every time they rev hardware. It's happened three times for the Axe-Fx II line now: when the MkII was announced, when the XL was announced and again when the XL+ was announced.

This is not unique to Fractal or uncommon to the world at large.

What is unique and rather misguided is the ire and hate that gets received when Fractal does it. It's how used goods markets work.

 

TRTTRTTRT

Veteran
Let's get one thing clear: they made it cost 3.8% less. That's not "a lot". Not by anyone's definition of "a lot".

And this isn't unique to Fractal. This is common to all products produced by all companies. The difference here is people who misunderstand what consumables are and how depreciation works. They've enjoyed a far-too-good depreciation rate on their tools and this just nudged the depreciation curve to be more inline with every other consumable that gets released.


Untrue. They do stock selloffs every time they rev hardware. It's happened three times for the Axe-Fx II line now: when the MkII was announced, when the XL was announced and again when the XL+ was announced.

This is not unique to Fractal or uncommon to the world at large.

What is unique and rather misguided is the ire that gets received Fractal does it. It's how used goods markets work.

Here's the the thing, and maybe you can find a South Park meme somewhere to help you understand it:

- fractal customers brag about their products retaining their value
- no other fractal gear has been replaced in a year, with basically the same thing, but cheaper
- living in Europe means these prices play against me - 1100 for something that was, when I bought it 1800 - in ways you obviously don't understand
- telling the press that the fx8 was 1800-2000 new (go look at the reviews) and then selling them a year later for 1100 makes it very difficult to sell one. The price is literally all over the place. The old price that Fractal sold direct isn't anywhere. So it looks - to anyone with Google - that you can get a new one for half price.
- however you want to think of this, if you had a piece of very nice gear that was selling online second hand for 90% of its new cost, then the company did some crap with the prices, and as a direct result the value of your gear has been halved - in reality - you'd be unimpressed.

Well, maybe you think all gear is basically worthless when you buy it, but in the last 8 years I've literally sold 200+ pieces of musical equipment, including some much more esoteric and expensive things - this is the worst depreciation in value I've had to deal with. On a product that was supposed to retain its value.

And frankly it's now in a closet gathering dust because my music gig has changed. Oh well.
 

iaresee

Moderator
Moderator
- fractal customers brag about their products retaining their value
That's on them, not Fractal. Fractal provides no warranty for value retention when you buy products from them. It's on the open market to set the price and, while you can make predictions about depreciation on the open market, ultimately as a consumer you have zero control over it. Expecting any company to provide some form of gauruntee here is ludicrous. Tesla recently stopped doing this for its $80k+ cars because it's a stupidly flawed idea. No other manufacturer does this. Expecting otherwise is misunderstanding the world and setting yourself up for disappointment.


- no other fractal gear has been replaced in a year, with basically the same thing, but cheaper
Your relocation of timelines is incorrect. The time span from the FX8 MkI to MkII was over a year -- 18 months to be precise. The MkI began shipping in January 2015. The AFII Xl -> XL+ was smaller. 12 months actually.

living in Europe means these prices play against me - 1100 for something that was, when I bought it 1800 - in ways you obviously don't understand
I understand, but they are unimportant. There is no resale value contract between you and Fractal or you and G66.eu -- so expecting a specific value when you go to resell it and being upset at the manufacturer is absurd. No matter where you live.

- however you want to think of this, if you had a piece of very nice gear that was selling online second hand for 90% of its new cost, then the company did some crap with the prices, and as a direct result the value of your gear has been halved - in reality - you'd be unimpressed.
I wouldn't be mad at the company because that is the way of the free market. It's absolutely irrational to be mad a Ford or BMW because they release a new model year after year and your model you bought continues to depreciate. That is how used goods markets function.
 

Ole

Forum Addict
Just a side note.
You can't even buy the MK2 yet (in EU), so there is no " I can just get a new one"..
I have no idea how you can compare your "loss" to a unit you can't even buy yet.
 

jjozwia

Forum Addict
Guess I don't see the gap. MKI sold for $1299/€1343. MKII is on waitlist for $1249/€TBA with shipping estimated to begin sometime during Q4 2016
https://web.archive.org/web/20151009025226/http://www.g66.eu/en/products/fractal-audio/fx8-multi-fx-pedalboard

Unfortunately vat was a significant portion of the purchase price at €255. It sucks you have compete against those who illegally ship/receive items either as gifts or with falsified declaration forms in attempts to avoid vat, customs, excise, etc.

Hopefully with the US clearance completed and buyers limited choice between waitlist and used you will find what you are looking for.
 
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