Review/Discussion: Retro Channel Stereo Power Amp

@BBN. Good points, and there will be some others ina similar boat (no pun). Just think that those who the RC fits best has/will be hit hard by the Fryette amp.

Im not pro Matrix in this context - I think that amp offers different qualities to the RC/Fryette. I think the RC main "user base" here are those who want front pannel controlability and a little (or a lot) of valve colour in their sound (that the Matrix doesnt add as such) If you ddont want that (which many dont) the Matrix is cheaper, lighter and smaller - hence why it suits different people. The main competition for the RC as I see it if the Fryette. The differences (tonal aside which I havent heard - obviously) are litereally one has valves, but is 1U verses a SS 2U amp. I just feel "most" choosing between thoese options will go for the Fryette, as by their nature there after valve induced properties - and the Fryette is valve. Of course some will go SS for the main issue, but many many more uses would have chosen the RC had the Fryette not been around. If the RC was available 6 months or so earlier I feel it would have had the headstart to take away some, or many of the users who will now go the Fryette route (hence why I think it missed the boat a little).

Hopefull Im wrong. There are many players out there, who want different things, and the RC looks to be a quality solution that will fit some. I just hope there are enough for the product to flurish.
 
It looks to me like the RC is perfect for someone wanting a "best of both world's" amp that bridges a solid state and a tube in functionality and sound. I switched to Matrix and won't be buying anything else because my Matrix sounds fantastic and don't feel like I'm "missing" anything. That being said, if the RC had come out earlier I may have gone that route?? But they both seem to say the same thing: BYE BYE TUBES!
 
I hope to get a chance at some point to review all the competing products; if not head-to-head, at least a serious period with each.

I cannot recommend one over another because I have not tried them all in person.

I am a strong proponent of 'horses for courses' and there are enough physical differences and happy owners of these different products that are out that I imagine they are all worthy products. I was contacted by someone connected to Fryette about getting me a sample of their new power amp to review 'from the first batch'. I look forward to the opportunity. Mick from XiTone contacted me about getting me some review time on one or two of the next cabinets he builds (featuring Matrix amps and speakers that are ordered by customers). Tom from Atomic has contacted me that I'll have a sample of the CLR to do a review of soon too... so I would assume that you will all see a reviews those products upcoming from me. I promise to seriously put them through the paces here and report in-depth on all of them.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
@BBN. Good points, and there will be some others ina similar boat (no pun). Just think that those who the RC fits best has/will be hit hard by the Fryette amp.

Im not pro Matrix in this context - I think that amp offers different qualities to the RC/Fryette. I think the RC main "user base" here are those who want front pannel controlability and a little (or a lot) of valve colour in their sound (that the Matrix doesnt add as such) If you ddont want that (which many dont) the Matrix is cheaper, lighter and smaller - hence why it suits different people. The main competition for the RC as I see it if the Fryette. The differences (tonal aside which I havent heard - obviously) are litereally one has valves, but is 1U verses a SS 2U amp. I just feel "most" choosing between thoese options will go for the Fryette, as by their nature there after valve induced properties - and the Fryette is valve. Of course some will go SS for the main issue, but many many more uses would have chosen the RC had the Fryette not been around. If the RC was available 6 months or so earlier I feel it would have had the headstart to take away some, or many of the users who will now go the Fryette route (hence why I think it missed the boat a little).

Hopefull Im wrong. There are many players out there, who want different things, and the RC looks to be a quality solution that will fit some. I just hope there are enough for the product to flurish.
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A pet peeve of mine is folks offering expertise and opinion on gear they have not personally tried. I just disagree that you have opinions on two products that you have not personally used. I'm not debating your points or your opinions; I just personally feel it is bad form to offer opinions on gear that you have not tried firsthand.

It's my personal philosophy and I'm just upfront with that opinion. I do not offer opinions on gear that I have not tried. I understand what you are saying and that you are discussing features; but the only way to decide on gear in this man's opinion is to actually try it firsthand. I hold everyone to that acid test, whether I agree with you or not.
 
your right of course scott, though im offering no expertise or opinion on the products themselves from a performance pov, which is of course the main issue. im mearly making comment on the the tech/form/physical aspects of the equipment which i feel is perfectly valid without trying them. i dont need to try them all to decide how close in weight, size or price they are or how i feel they may appeal relative to each other in that respect.

i too dont wish to change my matrix, though if the chance to try the others presents itself i will. if the rc had been available first i would probably have gone that route. ditto the fryette. for me weight and size are just as important as aspects so had i gone with the rc or fryette first, i may still have changed to a more suitable product later.

if the rc came in a 1u package and half the weight i may well be temptednto switch to it from the matrix because of the benefits it does offer. if the fryette was a little cheaper and lighter i may have been tempted there as well almost regardless of how the amps performed (as im confident they all perform well without actually testing them in person).

nobody has heard all 3 amps yet to directly compare, so all we can go on is the published specs, and reviews of those who have tried one, or perhaps two of the options. im mearly making comment on how i feel those specs (as none of the products have received bad reviews) stack.

either way, its obvious you feel strongly that opinion isnt valid without testing. i agree when it comes to tone/feel but not when it comes to other aspects.

any direct comparrison once products have been tried against each other is of course better and i look forward to your findings/thoughts.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
your right of course scott, though im offering no expertise or opinion on the products themselves from a performance pov, which is of course the main issue. im mearly making comment on the the tech/form/physical aspects of the equipment which i feel is perfectly valid without trying them. i dont need to try them all to decide how close in weight, size or price they are or how i feel they may appeal relative to each other in that respect.

i too dont wish to change my matrix, though if the chance to try the others presents itself i will. if the rc had been available first i would probably have gone that route. ditto the fryette. for me weight and size are just as important as aspects so had i gone with the rc or fryette first, i may still have changed to a more suitable product later.

if the rc came in a 1u package and half the weight i may well be temptednto switch to it from the matrix because of the benefits it does offer. if the fryette was a little cheaper and lighter i may have been tempted there as well almost regardless of how the amps performed (as im confident they all perform well without actually testing them in person).

nobody has heard all 3 amps yet to directly compare, so all we can go on is the published specs, and reviews of those who have tried one, or perhaps two of the options. im mearly making comment on how i feel those specs (as none of the products have received bad reviews) stack.

either way, its obvious you feel strongly that opinion isnt valid without testing. i agree when it comes to tone/feel but not when it comes to other aspects.

any direct comparrison once products have been tried against each other is of course better and i look forward to your findings/thoughts.
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Paul,

I do not disagree with you at all; except to mention my own credo and that often the actual performance of gear can supersede any sort of tech/form/physical aspects. I brought it up simply to note it so folks can take that into consideration. Not an attack on you or your opinions. You are comparing and contrasting gear on specs alone, which is IMHO irresponsible and strewn with obvious logical pratfalls lacking actually using the gear.

IMHO, I hold everyone to that philosophy and note it because I do think that it matters. It sounds to me - whether or not you intend it to - that you are claiming one is better than another based on the words you are using 'missing the boat' or referencing choosing one over another without using the gear in question regardless of your intentions. That's a lot of assumption. I might even agree with you on all your points; but feel personally that I'd hold any recommendations of one over another (ie. comments about 'missing the boat') before you actually try the gear firsthand. I hope you understand where I am coming from. I don't show up in Matrix amp reviews and discussions talking about another amp to consider for instance. I do not mention them as 'missing the boat'. Why? Because I have not seriously even used the Matrix amps in order to make that suggestion valid. See where I am coming from?

You are a well known enthusiast of the Matrix brand and amps in general; and you've effectively walked into a review thread/discussion about a competing product and turned it into a discussion of Matrix amps when you have not even used the actual gear in the actual subject of the thread. Read your own words to see what I am talking about. You take pains to position different products against each other and the Matrix. Two of the three products you mention you have not even tried firsthand. Can you see where I am coming from?

I just do not agree with that sort of thing. I call it out when I see folks doing it because I do not feel it is the right thing to do.
 
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paulmapp8306 said:
I just feel "most" choosing between thoese options will go for the Fryette, as by their nature there after valve induced properties - and the Fryette is valve.
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Thanks for the response Paul, again you make some solid points...and I enjoy the healthy conversation.

Just wanted to comment on your statement above around choosing between Fryette and RC. I actually have the opposite opinion on what option I would choose.
Out of the three options (Matrix, RC and Fryette). Fryette would be my last choice. Reason....tubes.
I'm done with tubes. Done with flipping a switch and hearing a tube pop and realize I only have half an amp for my gig, done with hearing tube crackles, done with tone fluctuation due to power differences in certain rooms. Getting rid of tubes was one of the main reasons I am in love with the Axe (tube tone, with no tubes). I'm looking for the exact same result out of a power amp.
So a power amp with tubes....no thanks. I really don't want to speak for others, but for me....Fryette does not appeal to me for that reason.
And if the RC offers that same valve response, then that would appeal to me (more than the Fryette).
This is all speculation because I haven't heard the Fryette or RC....and that's why these decisions are so tough!
You can't walk into Guitar Center and plug into their Axe 2 and try out the RC into a Atomic CLR passive cab. So most of us have to make our decisions based on opinions of others (and of course the specs of the unit).

At the moment, for me the choice becomes Matrix vs. RC

And it's a tough choice....because both are SS, both are not super heavy, and both offer clean power.
Difference is - RC offers the addition of Valve response vs. Matrix being smaller and lighter. I'm leaving towards RC because I like Valve response....man this just isn't easy.
 
I never really understand why some folk feel the need to postulate on behalf of others, especially when, as Scott says, they have no experience of the item upon which they presume. Really, how can you have a clue unless you have actually tried it?

The whole point of the Retro is precisely that it isn't a valve amp. Therefore there is no variance in tone, no maintenance, no fragility, no heat issues and so on. It also has no fans, which some will like. It is just a solid state amp which sounds and feels like playing through a tube amp. Not a Retro tube amp necessarily, but a Marshall, a Mesa, a Fender or whatever else you instruct it to be via the Axe. The fact that it can be a Retro tube amp if you want it to be is just a bonus.

I have the Retro and I use it with the amp channel way down at 9 O'Clock (i.e pretty flat and uncoloured), and the amp and cab sims are ON in the Axe. The ability to add a bit of juice is handy and fun, but I rarely use it. The presence is also handy when switching from strat to humbuckers or when the room in question needs it.

I have been searching for years for a non valve amp solution. I have the Atomic, I tried a Matrix and they just didn't do it for me. The Retro does. I'd recommend the Retro to anyone but what I definitely won't do is tell you you're wrong if you prefer something different. To each their own way.

BBN - it's not so hard, just do it. You know you want to! :)
 
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lancekeltner said:
Where and when is Axefest?

I can make that happen.
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I was too slow... Hope you can make it Lance. A bunch of Southern Californians, Northern Californians, Arizonians, and I guess people from around the country will be there for the event. Cliff himself will be there, Matt, Scott Peterson... etc. However, try to first contact the organizers to ensure that you have adequate time to demonstrate the Retro.

Thanks.
 
I'm just happy that there are choices. But that's me..... Good info in your reveiw Scott. Thanks.
 
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Sorry to jump into the middle of this discussion... For me, the Retro-Channel Amp is quickly becoming the answer to using the axe fx live.

I can't comment on the Matrix or Fryette solutions. I feel like it is different strokes for different folks. However, the Axe Fx has been a bit of a rabbit hole for my taste. Love it for direct recording and quiet rehearsals.

I've tried everyone's presets and spent time dialing in my own live sounds. Still, I've only used the axe 3 times instead of my tube amp live. From what I have experienced, FRFR isn't the right solution for me. Now, is it 100% operator error? I don't know. I'll accept that criticism without any rebuttal. But, I have a pair of QSC HPR112's that wound up being great FOH speakers for my 4 piece as well as a RCF NX12-SMA that is the best stage monitor I've owned.

What I can say about the RC is that it FEELS good. It sounds good, even by itself. I spent a some time dialing up the Badger model, no effects, into the amp, out to my PC cab... It pushes, it has girth, it still allows you to utilize the power amp modeling if you dial up on the volume, resonance and presence to taste. What I like is to use the RC's front panel controls. I have the power amp sims on for clean/semi-dirt tones, and off for heavier gain.

I A/B/C'ed the Axe into Retro, Axe into RCF (using 3rd party ir's), and my tube amp's clean (Egnater Mod50 VX)... Axe - Retro was my choice. Again it's all subjective. As the saying goes, everyone has an opinion and they all stink...

In my opinion, Lance is a good person to deal with... There was a problem in shipping with my first unit. We spoke on the phone. He fedexed me a replacement the day before I sent back the first one.

The only thing I would recommend is to play one and decide for yourself, if possible. I was on the fence about the Axe, in general, simply because I don't use it live. When I got the working RC amp, I played through some presets and wasn't thrilled. I had a sell it all moment... I inquired about returning the amp. Retro-Channel does not have a return policy if one simply does not like the amp or modeling in general. So I dug in, spent a few hours dialing up a Badger patch, doing the comparisons. In the end, I'm glad I didn't return it. But, it is worth mentioning, especially for the overseas guys.


Best,

-Chris
 
How deep is the RC? I'm wondering if it would be safe to rack directly under an Axe-Fx II without worrying about too much heat from the heat fins drifting upwards towards the Axe.
 
Scott Peterson said:
With those 4 controls on the front, you can dial in all sorts of different timbre and it is remarkable - for a solid state amp - how much you can do with it. Lance has talked and shown in some demo videos that the power amp has some of the Retro Channel amp gain and 'feel' from their amp line. That allows you to actually even plug direct into the RC Power Amp and use it as a full blown solution. The gain level it allows is somewhere in the low mid-gain, essentially sounding like a pushed amp. If you are in a pinch because your preamp goes down; this is a nice alternative.
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Good review as always Scott. Now this (see the above underlined quote) would come in handy in case something happens to your Fractal unit. It makes an excellent backup. Just plug it in and play like you would with a guitar amp 8) I can live with that mid gig no problem. Good one Lance!
 
Fair enough all.

I certainly am not FOR the Matrix here. I actually feel the closest competition for the RC isnt the Matrix but the Fryette. The missing the boat was purely on the timing of the RC release, and the relative timing of the Fryette release. Thats all there is really.

Its also (I thought) a discussion about the RC - and my points (i fell) are valid observations - and ones with others may not hold or may not even have considered. That said I take notice of how other feel, and i have made my points. Ill say again, that i certainly did not mean to come across as Pro one thing, anti another, or recommending any of the solutions as such. If I did I apologise, and wish to make it clean now I am not doing so. The RC is of interest to me despite the thoughts i have expressed, as is the Fryette. personally its the weight issue, not size or price, that I have any issue with from either product - and that would be the sole reason for me not buying either at present. At 45, with back and knee problems weight is a BIG consideration. For others it wont be at all, ditto size, price etc.


Id like to try and hook up with MNG sometime soon. While I work in Belfast, I have a house (and a family) in Nottingham with is an hour or so from MNGs location. That would provide an interesting direct A/B comparrison of the RC and Matrix. Shame the Fryette isnt quite available yet. Im home roughly one weekend in 3/4 so if thats manageable from MNGs POV I ll try and sort something.
 
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