Red Wirez IR Mixer

gittarzann said:
MKeditor said:
I tried uploading them this morning. Either it didn't really upload.....or they IRs didn't mix right....or the Scott's Marshall and Bogner cabs sound really thin. Most likely Scott's mix is not at fault. Either way it is hard to tell since I have nothing to compare it to.

Dang!
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I think something is up with the user IR system.

I tried the Lenny patch the other day and had the thin/brittle high end thing going on.

First time I have had that happen, and I have been using user IR's since Cliff added that option.

When I loaded the IR, redwires via the editor, it acted like it didn't load.....no midi light, but I could hear a pop and something loaded. It kinda sounds like there is direct signal making it through the IR. If I bypass the cab block you can definitely tell there is something loaded, but not a normal cab.
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It seems to me like people are getting severely truncated IRs. It seems to be predominantly Mac uses, but there are some Vista users in there as well. I've heard enough stories and samples now to be pretty sure something is going on. Not sure what. But, it's a big problem for me because it has a detrimental effect on people's opinions of our IRs. It only takes a few negative comments to destroy much of the goodwill that's been built up. It's one thing if someone doesn't fancy our IRs. I can live with that. But I want their opinion to be based on the real thing, not some fizzy facsimile.

It's to the point now where I'm thinking about sending out an APB to all users to try and get some feedback and testing going. But, first I'll push it a little more around here. I really need someone with the problem to step up and perform a few tests. Before it can be fixed, we have to definitively determine that there is a problem.

MK, if you could email the recipes, the mixed IR(s) and the sysex files you're using. At least, we can rule that out.
 
Outstanding and impressive customer service being demonstrated before our eyes.

Impressed.

FWIW, I use an old school WinXP machine for all my DAW work; and working with the Axe-FX.
 
Hi Guys,

Mike your support is outstanding in this case and very much appreciated.

I would like to only let you know that the IR's converted by Cliff sounds different that the wav's one (24bit48Khz) that are mix using your mix software and then convert from wav to sysex using Albert's utility software. For some reason even the same cab taken from AxeFx folder sounds pretty good to the same IR converted from wav to sysex using the Albert's utility program which sounds brighter or fizzy if you like. I have also experience different issue transferring wav IR's to sysex. Sometimes I get error massage on the AxeFx after transfer the wav to sysex IR using Albert's utility program "Bad Cheskum". However, it looks like the IR has been transferred because it sounds different then patch without the cab. I do believe that there is nothing wrong with Redwirez IR's as there are. The issue is the conversion process from wav to sysex. If you could please check this aspect of the process when you will be working or fixing this issue that would be a very much appreciated. I am sorry for my English. I hope it will help.

Thank you Mike again for your support in this matter.

MS
 
Rezonans said:
Hi Guys,

Mike your support is outstanding in this case and very much appreciated.

I would like to only let you know that the IR's converted by Cliff sounds different that the wav's one (24bit48Khz) that are mix using your mix software and then convert from wav to sysex using Albert's utility software. For some reason even the same cab taken from AxeFx folder sounds pretty good to the same IR converted from wav to sysex using the Albert's utility program which sounds brighter or fizzy if you like. I have also experience different issue transferring wav IR's to sysex. Sometimes I get error massage on the AxeFx after transfer the wav to sysex IR using Albert's utility program "Bad Cheskum". However, it looks like the IR has been transferred because it sounds different then patch without the cab. I do believe that there is nothing wrong with Redwirez IR's as there are. The issue is the conversion process from wav to sysex. If you could please check this aspect of the process when you will be working or fixing this issue that would be a very much appreciated. I am sorry for my English. I hope it will help.

Thank you Mike again for your support in this matter.

MS
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I am looking into the conversion process. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Mike-
you are doing an awesome job with the ir's. you mixer is extremely helpful to many of us.
Thanks again for all your hard work.
 
redwire said:
MK, if you could email the recipes, the mixed IR(s) and the sysex files you're using. At least, we can rule that out.
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e-mail sent. Thanks for looking into it.
 
FWIW...I am using a P3 laptop running XP and IR's that were already converted by RedWire.

I have used Scott's recipes as well as others...and did a couple of my own with no problem.

I just tried the lenny patch, and I could tell something wasn't right almost immediately (before playing)

It was like the IR didn't load in a normal way. I tried again, and again etc...but no worky.
I have not tried the old Lars' editor yet.
 
Hi All,

I was trying to mix the AxeFx IR's using Redwirez mixer software but unfortunately I was not successful. I have got this error massage: Syntax error in mix. spec. I checked again and again if everything is right but I couldn't correct it. Would you please Mike provide to us users of AxeFx mixer that would be able to mix AxeFx IR's. I am not sure at this point of time if it is possible or not but I guess it can be done. Unless the existing mixer can do that. If yes, would you please let us know. I haven't heard that AxeFx users have been mixing the AxeFx IR's converted by Cliff. I know that many did mixed the wav IR's and then converted to sysex format.

Thanks again Mike for your help in this matter.

MS
 
Rezonans said:
Hi All,

I was trying to mix the AxeFx IR's using Redwirez mixer software but unfortunately I was not successful. I have got this error massage: Syntax error in mix. spec. I checked again and again if everything is right but I couldn't correct it. Would you please Mike provide to us users of AxeFx mixer that would be able to mix AxeFx IR's. I am not sure at this point of time if it is possible or not but I guess it can be done. Unless the existing mixer can do that. If yes, would you please let us know. I haven't heard that AxeFx users have been mixing the AxeFx IR's converted by Cliff. I know that many did mixed the wav IR's and then converted to sysex format.

Thanks again Mike for your help in this matter.

MS
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The syntax error is because your mix recipe isn't right. Post it here and we can figure it out.
 
Dear Mr. Redwire,

You, sir, are doing an amazing job! I purchased your IRs largely based on the feedback from folks here about the quality of the tones. But just as important was witnessing your support of this user base. And getting the green light from Jay Mitchell on your techniques meant a great deal as well.

Not many folks can appreciate just how difficult troubleshooting software problems can be when the bits are running "in the wild" on multiple platforms and configurations. Your dedication to supporting a freebie app says a lot about you and what sorts of things we can expect from Redwirez moving forward.

Regards,

Tim
 
hippietim said:
Dear Mr. Redwire,

You, sir, are doing an amazing job! I purchased your IRs largely based on the feedback from folks here about the quality of the tones. But just as important was witnessing your support of this user base. And getting the green light from Jay Mitchell on your techniques meant a great deal as well.

Not many folks can appreciate just how difficult troubleshooting software problems can be when the bits are running "in the wild" on multiple platforms and configurations. Your dedication to supporting a freebie app says a lot about you and what sorts of things we can expect from Redwirez moving forward.

Regards,

Tim
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+1 !
 
R.D. said:
hippietim said:
Dear Mr. Redwire,

You, sir, are doing an amazing job! I purchased your IRs largely based on the feedback from folks here about the quality of the tones. But just as important was witnessing your support of this user base. And getting the green light from Jay Mitchell on your techniques meant a great deal as well.

Not many folks can appreciate just how difficult troubleshooting software problems can be when the bits are running "in the wild" on multiple platforms and configurations. Your dedication to supporting a freebie app says a lot about you and what sorts of things we can expect from Redwirez moving forward.

Regards,

Tim
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+1 !
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++1

My hope is that you don't get frustrated and tell us all to....

Your efforts are VERY much appreciated :cool:
 
AlbertA said:
redwire said:
So, the next step is to use AlbertA's converter to make a sysex file from the wav file. At this point, unless AlbertA let's me appropriate some of his conversion code, I do not plan on adding the conversion into the mixIR, but I will try to make it easier to use over time.
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I can send it to you no problems, If I can find it, hehehe... It's no biggie, it's just a message header, 1024 32 bit integers nibbled out because of sysex with a checksum byte (XOR checksum of the data bytes) before sysex end.
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I sent you a PM with all the details for the IR sysex message.
 
Am I right in thinking that once Axe-pc is going....testing these IR's on the fly is gonna be easy?

Its gonna all be revolutionary! ;)
 
Thanks for all the positive comments :)

I took the wav, sysex, and mix files MK sent me and did some tests. I ran the mix files through my IR mixer here and converted the mixes to sysex. The resulting files were bit for bit identical to the files MK sent me. I can't vouch for the sysex conversion because I can't test it, but it should fail every time if there was something wrong with it and it seems like a pretty straightforward process based on what AlbertA told me. So, I'm 90% sure that the conversion is not the problem. The details of the test are below, but my rather rambling conclusion is that the problem could be one or a combination of a few things:

1. The IR upload fails. I talked to Cliff about this one and he assures me that if the sysex checksum fails (meaning the data did not make it to the Axe-Fx exactly as it was supposed to) then the IR won't load at all. So, it is possible the upload is crapping out because of some MIDI transmission snafu, the Axe-Fx displays an error, but the user doesn't catch the message and assumes the IR is screwed up when it really hasn't been loaded at all. Maybe there is a subsequent change in volume when the cab block is on (not bypassed) even when no IR is loaded, so it sounds different than bypass even when no IR loaded. The whole Fletcher-Munson curve thing can play tricks on you when comparing the same sound at different volumes. Maybe someone with an Axe-Fx can check this one out. Is there a volume setting or EQ on the cab block that works even when an IR is not loaded?

2. There may be corrupted IRs out there. The "Lenny" patch seems like a prime candidate for this one since a few people have complained about it. I don't even know where to get it and I couldn't test it anyway, so I have no way of knowing if it's corrupted. Is the Lenny patch zipped up or just a naked sysex file out there. I would recommend that all patches and sysex files get placed in a zip container. The zip format has a CRC built in so it will tell you if the data is screwed up.

3. An Axe-Fx setting is set incorrectly. Maybe the mic sim is on. Maybe EQ applied. Maybe you uploaded to cabinet 2 (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just quoting what I've heard). I can't help much with this one as I spent all the money on new cabinets and mics and don't have enough left over to buy an Axe-Fx :)

4. One mans thick is another man's thin. I would suggest that when people post patches and IR mix recipes that they include a short MP3 of what the patch is supposed to sound like. We all have different ways of hearing things and having a reference may help sort that out.

There may be some other issue still lurking out there, but #1 seems like the most likely candidate. It would be pretty easy for someone with an IR problem to test by recording the output of the Axe-Fx with the cab block bypassed and then with the IR "loaded" (at least attempted) and the cab block on, taking note of all the settings on the cab block.


Details of the IR mix testing:
---------------------------------

I ran this rhythm guitar clip through the resulting mixed IRs using SIR2 in my DAW: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/NoCab-Guitar.mp3

As you can hear it's pretty fizzy without the IR applied. The clip is from a 10 watt London Power Studio 10 with 6V6 power tubes, so obviously it's not dialed in for these particular IRs, but it serves well enough to verify that the IRs themselves are not screwed up.

Scott's Bogner: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/scott-bogner.mk-Guitar.mp3
SP Marshall1: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/SPMarshall1.mk-Guitar.mp3
Vox1: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/Vox1.mk-Guitar.mp3
FenderClean2: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/FenderClean2.mk-Guitar.mp3

And remember these IRs are not particularly suited to this clip, so don't judge them on the basis of tone, just by the fact that they do what speaker IRs should do and filter out all the nasty fizz (among other things).

I did not use the 1024 sample truncated IRs, so these have quite a bit of room sound in them. Just for fun. Here's the same mixes using the 1024 sample truncated IRs:

Scott's Bogner: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/scott-bogner.mk-Guitar_trunc.mp3
SP Marshall1: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/SPMarshall1.mk-Guitar_trunc.mp3
Vox1: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/Vox1.mk-Guitar_trunc.mp3
FenderClean2: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/FenderClean2.mk-Guitar_trunc.mp3

You can download the 48KHz/24bit wav files of the test here: http://www.redwirez.com/ir/MK-test-wav.zip

So, the IR mixes themselves are not the problem.
 
It's fascinating to me on a few levels.

A) I have never heard the untruncated version of these applied to anything. I only used the truncated versions and auditioned via Axe-FX. There's a LOT of room on there in the first set.
B) The truncated versions in group 2 make more sense to me tonally and obvious (to me) where I was going with them. (So, whew, I am NOT nuts after all. :D)
C) The truncated versions completely back up everything Jay has said about the 1024 length being long enough to capture the cab, but not the room.

I personally believe something is amiss on the midi trip from folk's computers to the Axe-FX. Either they are landing in the wrong slots in the Axe-FX, or they have a mic model activated in the cab block, are not set for hi-res mono, or something.

I've spent a LOT of time reworking my presets in the past few days during this re-amping stuff with Stef and Angus DI recorded guitar to really 'get inside' my presets and understand them better. I have not touched the IR's; because to me, what I've done works for what I want to hear.

This entire journey gets more fascinating each day.

One thing I'd really like to point out is that Mike of RedWirez is working this hard on this for a segment of his target customers, and we were never really even in the mix when he started this entire project. Mark doesn't even have an Axe-FX. Yet the guy is here working his arse off for us. We need to take up a collection and buy Mark an Axe-FX. I'm serious.
 
redwire said:
1. The IR upload fails. I talked to Cliff about this one and he assures me that if the sysex checksum fails (meaning the data did not make it to the Axe-Fx exactly as it was supposed to) then the IR won't load at all.
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That's certainly been my experience. Either it gets there or it doesn't. There is no in between.

Maybe there is a subsequent change in volume when the cab block is on (not bypassed) even when no IR is loaded,
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If no IR has ever been loaded into a user spot, it will not pass signal except via the "air" parameter, which mixes direct sound with the convoluted signal. With air set to zero, a user IR spot will be dead until you put something in there. After that, the only way to clear the spot entirely would be to upload a null IR (all zeros). So, if an upload fails and there was anything there before, you still have whatever that was. If nothing had been uploaded before, you'd actually have nothing.

2. There may be corrupted IRs out there. The "Lenny" patch seems like a prime candidate for this one
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Nope. IRs never load with presets. They are completely independent of each other. Uploading a preset cannot affect a user IR spot, and vice versa.

One mans thick is another man's thin.
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Bingo. I've been hesitant to say much about this, but that's always the strongest probability when there are complaints like this. It makes a huge difference what you're using to amplify the Axe-Fx, as well as what you settings you were using before you uploaded a given IR. This is one of the main reasons I decided not to get into the business of selling IRs. There are the inevitable "something has got to be wrong with this" complaints that turn out to be completely incorrect. If you take them seriously, you waste a lot of time chasing somebody else's screwups and/or misconceptions. If you ignore them, you'll be accused of providing lousy customer service. I provide my IRs with a full money back guarantee. Even if you like them, I'll give you back every penny you paid me for them. ;)

A number of users have fallen prey to the "silver bullet" syndrome. If only they find the right IR/power amp/cab/preset, etc., etc., their sound will magically be made whole, and all will be right with the world. The real world never works like that. If you don't spend some time adapting your amp block settings to an IR, you will never know its potential. That's one of the reasons I have never tried IRs that I did not acquire myself. It can be a rabbit hole, and, if you don't have a road map, you can easily get lost and never find your way home.
 
I appreciate the kind words, Scott. No need to take up a collection :oops: Just keep the word on the street positive and I'll get there.

Thanks for your input Jay. Next time there's a complaint about a thin and fizzy IR, I'll ask them to check the air parameter on the cab block. If it's not zero and the IR failed to load then they'll just be hearing the dry amp, but at a different level, which is pretty much what it sounds like in the samples I've heard.

Besides, the "one man's thick is another man's thin," which I obviously can't do anything about, this is the prime suspect in my detective novel.

So, turn the air parameter off (however you do that), guys, and if you hear nothing then you know you don't have an IR in there... right?
 
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