Preset leveling using Waves Loudness Meter

[barhrecords]

Here is the downloads link to the pink noise wav files that I use to calibrate various things:

Downloads - General - Digital Domain: CD Mastering | Mastered for iTunes | Audio Mastering | Blu-Ray Mastering

 

[quark]

I tried the free ORBAN Loudness Meter on OS X 10.9.1 tonight and it's quite good in so much that it operates well on Mavericks and with the Axe-Fx as the input source. I dig very much that it's standalone and not a VST-hosted application.

I didn't try to feed the Axe-Fx any pink noise, but I'll do that later tonight. Was looking to try Noisy to do the pink noise generation. That'd give me a completely standalone app setup which would be super nice.

I installed the Orban program but haven't been able to get it to sample audio from my Axe. Can you tell me what settings you have on the Axe and in the program to get it to work. The only connection I have between the Axe and PC is USB ... do I need something else? Thanks ... I'm using Window 8.1 by the way ...

 

[iaresee]

I installed the Orban program but haven't been able to get it to sample audio from my Axe. Can you tell me what settings you have on the Axe and in the program to get it to work. The only connection I have between the Axe and PC is USB ... do I need something else? Thanks ... I'm using Window 8.1 by the way ...

I just set the input to Axe-Fx II and then pressed the power button on the bottom of the screen. You have to press the power button on it's screen to get it to start sampling.

 

[Highcastle_of_Tone]

I do this, essentially, with my Mackie mini-mixer (that has output LED's).

I do it there first; gets me in the ballpark. I then refine it by ear as a final check.

It's ENTIRELY unsophisticated, but it works too.

This is essentially what I do with my Presonus studiolive, in that I drive the level until I start seeing red and then back off. The OCD in me would love to have an actual number readout (perceived loudness, db at unity gain, etc.) displayed on the AxeFx. Even cooler would be a utility within the program to automatically correct all patches to the desired level of output (with undo function built in of course, and with the priority given to just adjusting the output of the unit and not messing with the signal chain/tone itself).

EDIT: I realize this may not be realistic and might take some phd level math, but hey, we can dream can't we?

 

[barhrecords]

This is essentially what I do with my Presonus studiolive, in that I drive the level until I start seeing red and then back off. The OCD in me would love to have an actual number readout (perceived loudness, db at unity gain, etc.) displayed on the AxeFx. Even cooler would be a utility within the program to automatically correct all patches to the desired level of output (with undo function built in of course, and with the priority given to just adjusting the output of the unit and not messing with the signal chain/tone itself).

EDIT: I realize this may not be realistic and might take some phd level math, but hey, we can dream can't we?

The algorithm for measuring perceived loudness is posted online (see the pdf in my previous post).

I think it would be *possible* for the AxeFx II itself to measure all the presets and set the output mixer levels in each preset to hit some specified target LFS number.

The problem would be activating / deactivating the blocks and so on.

It would be not be tractable to level all possible block on / off, X/Y and scene combinations of all presets. So for this reason, such a utility might not have much use?

 

[Highcastle_of_Tone]

I agree the level would change depending on what blocks and x/y states were activated so the idea of a "hit this button and level all your presets" might not be possible, but having a target output level to compare would at least assist the tweaking of levels. This might require establishing a "default" level for most of your blocks to achieve the same output level of the unit. Maybe there could be a way to export a report that would give you the output levels based on scenes, based on the on/off status of various blocks? I say export because I wouldn't want to try and parse this on the front panel.

EDIT: that being said, I'm fine with the old fashioned way I use now, but it would be an interesting utility to have. And of course, this doesn't take into account the input level.

 

[jyflorida]

I do it be ear...

Yes! I use an SPL mainly for "ballpark" adjustments but ultimately it's by ear after that.

 

[kevrock]

i don't see axe fxii in my input list on the orban

 

[iaresee]

i don't see axe fxii in my input list on the orban

Not sure what to tell you dude. Works awesome in OS X. Windows sucks, buy a Mac?

 

[kevrock]

Lol I have a Mac. And after I restarted it showed up. And windows does suck.
Question I have now I played pink noise thru my axe got reading and I went by the ITU BS short term and integrated meter and it made some of my clean presets way louder when I set all my presets to the same number on that scale
Am I reading the wrong scale?

 

[steadystate]

Regardless of the method, once you get your levels perfect, the guy at the board is going to mess everything up again.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Not sure what to tell you dude. Works awesome in OS X. Windows sucks, buy a Mac?

Lol I have a Mac.

Classic.
I love it when mac people need to justify their purchase to themselves to feel better.

 

[Thomas Larsson]

Yes !
I had a suggestion that all amps should have the same output-level when the "virtual-poweramp" was cranced. That would make things easier (same reference) when using it together with music.
But some smart-ass told me that a 100 watt sim had to be louder than a 20w amp sim. I decided to never again bother to have a constructive discussion on this forum.
It is so frustrating.

This is intriguing!

Who wouldn't love it if one day the Axe-Fx could automatically level-match a group of presets, convincingly, to equal perceived loudness. This has been discussed on this forum many times in the past, the idea was always ruled out...

Hmmm....

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Yes !
I had a suggestion that all amps should have the same output-level when the "virtual-poweramp" was cranced. That would make things easier (same reference) when using it together with music.
But some smart-ass told me that a 100 watt sim had to be louder than a 20w amp sim. I decided to never again bother to have a constructive discussion on this forum.
It is so frustrating.

"Louder" is subjective. The Loudness meters are great but can only get you so far.

There is no way to make all amps have the same output level by default, as the Axe reproduces the dynamics of amps almost perfectly. It depends on your guitar, on your EQ, on your playing, etc..
A clean amp for one guitar can be perfectly leveled, as soon as you use a different guitar, it may be way too loud.
The Axe can not know what kind of guitar you use or what kind of music you play, obviously.

And no, this is not some "smart-ass" answer, it's just the truth.

 

[geriatric]

Quark

What iaresee said + make sure the little buttons at the left of each meter are clicked so they show a yellow circle with a black centre which means they are activated.

 

[Thomas Larsson]

This is exactly why it is pointless to argue with people that can not read what I say.
I Said a cranced poweramp. I did not say a clean amp of course.


What ever you say about this I know that a 1v signal will not be near a 0,25 v signal i Loudness.

Why waiste time on this forum anyway.

"Louder" is subjective. The Loudness meters are great but can only get you so far.

There is no way to make all amps have the same output level by default, as the Axe reproduces the dynamics of amps almost perfectly. It depends on your guitar, on your EQ, on your playing, etc..
A clean amp for one guitar can be perfectly leveled, as soon as you use a different guitar, it may be way too loud.
The Axe can not know what kind of guitar you use or what kind of music you play, obviously.

And no, this is not some "smart-ass" answer, it's just the truth.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

This is exactly why it is pointless to argue with people that can not read what I say.
I Said a cranced poweramp. I did not say a clean amp of course.


What ever you say about this I know that a 1v signal will not be near a 0,25 v signal i Loudness.

Why waiste time on this forum anyway.

The master volume is already matched to provide similar levels to a certain extend (That's why the MV value of the real amp does not translate well to the matching Axe model).

But ehh. :tranquillity:
You clearly do not want to discuss this on a mature level, so why should I waste my breath here?

 

[yek]

But ehh. :tranquillity:
You clearly do not want to discuss this on a mature level, so why should I waste my breath here?

+1

 

[barhrecords]

"Louder" is subjective. The Loudness meters are great but can only get you so far.

There is no way to make all amps have the same output level by default, as the Axe reproduces the dynamics of amps almost perfectly. It depends on your guitar, on your EQ, on your playing, etc..
A clean amp for one guitar can be perfectly leveled, as soon as you use a different guitar, it may be way too loud.
The Axe can not know what kind of guitar you use or what kind of music you play, obviously.

And no, this is not some "smart-ass" answer, it's just the truth.

I believe the on going and more recent research into automatic perceived loudness control for broadcast has changed the game.

Just like "modelers could never replace amps"... "Loudness meters are great but..."

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I believe the on going and more recent research into automatic perceived loudness control for broadcast has changed the game.

Just like "modelers could never replace amps"... "Loudness meters are great but..."

I'm not saying it can't be done. With a "learn" function that requires you to play a little bit kinda like with tonematching, you can probably get pretty good results. But a "level all my presets" button is not possible, simply because you won't play the same riff with all of your presets, don't you?