Preset leveling using Waves Loudness Meter

barhrecords

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I've been using the Waves Loudness Meter plugin in Pro Tools to see if I could use it to volume match different AxeFx II presets.

I setup Pro Tools with a mono track containing a pink noise -20dbFs test signal.

I run Pro Tools S/PDIF out -> AxeFx II -> S/PDIF -> Pro Tools

Utility -> Reset. Input source S/PDIF. Output 1 max.

The quick jump keys are set to go to Amp 1 / Amp 2. I went to the Trem/Mix page of Amp 1 so that I could use Manual Knob B to adjust the amp block level. With this setup, from Recall mode, I can press X and then use B to adjust amp block level.

It's been kinda' cool. I'm not done experimenting with this, but it looks promising.

Just quickly going through it so far when the Waves meter shows the loudness the same, the presets really do have the same apparent loudness when I switch back to playing guitar.

Here are the reported loudness levels of the first few V12 factory presets:

000 59 Bassguy -13
001 65 Bassguy -11
002 Brownface -12
003 Deluxe Verb -12
004 Double Verb -12
005 A-Class 15 -12
006 Top Boost -16
007 Plexi Normal -13
008 Plexi Treble -14
009 1987x Treble -15
010 Brit 800 -12
011 Hipower Brilliant -9
012 USA Clean -11


PresetLeveling_zps0f4f477e.jpg
 
Nice, I am using ozone 5 and it's awesome. With almost 200 presets in our rotation I need them all to be equal and not only just the preset but the scene changes as well.

This method gets me 95% there, room and band dynamics still play some into it though.
 
There has been a lot of work done recently on measuring perceived loudness.

The loudness measuring algorithm in the Waves plug is definitely superior to SPL readings.

I haven't gone though all the factory presets yet, but all the ones I have leveled using WLM and not my ears, have been spot on.

In just measuring the perceived loudness in the V12 presets, it's interesting that there are patterns, where you can see groups of presets that are pretty spot on the same perceived loudness. And a few far off

e.g. factory preset 11 is -9 and quite a bit louder than its neighboring presets.
 
So how well does it *really* correspond to perceived levels?

A while back, I had done a similar thing (usin Reaper, which I think is just SPL), and it was a miserable failure. Even though I had set all my presets to within 1 dB of one another, my next rehearsal was a nightmare of "lost in the mix" or "blast and shatter everyone's hearing".

Is Waves significantly better for measuring perceived loudness?
 
Dpoirier said:
So how well does it *really* correspond to perceived levels?

A while back, I had done a similar thing (usin Reaper, which I think is just SPL), and it was a miserable failure. Even though I had set all my presets to within 1 dB of one another, my next rehearsal was a nightmare of "lost in the mix" or "blast and shatter everyone's hearing".

Is Waves significantly better for measuring perceived loudness?
Click to expand...

Its pretty spot on so far.

It is not an RMS, Peak or traditional level meter.

The algorithms used to measure perceived loudness are designed to really determine how a human being would perceive the loudness: http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-I!!PDF-E.pdf
 
I thought loudness measurement had progressed a lot recently so it was neat to try it out.

And yes, using your ears is a great solution. I think that goes without saying.

This thread was about the latest in loudness measurement. :)
 
Yes, I usually just use the inc/dec feature of the AxeFXII and use my ears, but I do know for a fact that I do get to a point where ear fatigue is an issue. And I was going to say something about just using a VU meter or something until I realized that you were using a loudness meter which is something different. I especially loved the idea of sending a test signal in there because that's just how I was brought up. :) I mean you never align a system without using a good reference; you can get close by winging it, but if you place a premium on consistency and accuracy you can't get around it.
 
Ok, just dreaming here, but this would be my dream addition to firmware 14. Perceived Loudness as a value in dB. Using this research and report sort of like how some meteorologists report perceived temperature which factors in primarily wind chill and humidity. SPL is obviously just the equivalent of the raw temperature gauge which is a rough estimate how it’s going to feel, but to get a perceived value which more accurately describes how the volume is likely going to be perceived, that would be a dream come true :)
 
I use the input meters on my Apollo to measure the Axe FX II patch volume. I don't have to load up Cubase or an additional plug in, it's just right there and it's always quite accurate. I do go back and forth between patches and use my ears for any fine tuning of the patch level, but the Apollo input meters are usually my end all be all for setting patch volume. Works great!
 
allard said:
Ok, just dreaming here, but this would be my dream addition to firmware 14. Perceived Loudness as a value in dB. Using this research and report sort of like how some meteorologists report perceived temperature which factors in primarily wind chill and humidity. SPL is obviously just the equivalent of the raw temperature gauge which is a rough estimate how it’s going to feel, but to get a perceived value which more accurately describes how the volume is likely going to be perceived, that would be a dream come true :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, if it really works, that would be neat.
 
I believe this algorithm / standard, link in post #7, is intended for television audio.

Maybe a perceived loudness limiter could be coded in the Axe? Not sure about that. About latency and CPU power.
 
I found an interesting (and free!) application for perceived loudness measurement: Orban Loudness Meter. However, I'm not sure how good it is.

I'd be curious to know:
1-) How it compares to Waves
2-) What all its reported measurements actually mean (CBS, ITU BS momentary, ITU BS short term & integrated, VU, PPM, Reconstructed Peak)

Anyone out there able to explain these? And anyone with Waves willing to install this free app and compare it?
 
Sigh. I knew as soon as I read 'Waves' in the plug-in title I was going to be disappointed. $400 is a little out of my meagre means.

I'd definitely like to know how the Orban meter compares to the Waves meter. Or anything in the sub-$100 range really.
 
iaresee said:
Sigh. I knew as soon as I read 'Waves' in the plug-in title I was going to be disappointed. $400 is a little out of my meagre means.

I'd definitely like to know how the Orban meter compares to the Waves meter. Or anything in the sub-$100 range really.
Click to expand...

Individually their plugs are high $$.

I had their Gold bundle for years and recently upgraded to Mercury when they had a really great sale price.

This WLM meter plug is one of the many new plugs that came with my upgrade.

By the way, I got my test signal files on Katz's site in the download area: www.digico.com
 
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