Preset leveling using Waves Loudness Meter

Thanks barhrecords for the info. I have set up a similar process on my Mac using Logic Pro X to receive pink noise from Audacity. (Audacity has a generator built in)
 
Robboman said:
This is intriguing!

Who wouldn't love it if one day the Axe-Fx could automatically level-match a group of presets, convincingly, to equal perceived loudness. This has been discussed on this forum many times in the past, the idea was always ruled out...

Hmmm....
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:eek:

uh, yes! :)
 
I was talking about this very topic with my bandmates at the pub last night.

Is everything set equal or is the best practice to stager the levels by song part?

E.g., Lead level is slightly higher than chorus level is slightly higher than verse level, etc.?
 
This would be the biggest time saver ever. Practically speaking, the issue I have is I can't often test patches at gig volume until I'm actually at the gig. I share a wall with my neighbor and I've already had to address loud music issues with them in the past so I don't push the buttons

Didn't know such a tool existed but yeah...$400 is a lot of scratch. Sweetwater said it's not available anymore though.
 
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Dpoirier said:
I found an interesting (and free!) application for perceived loudness measurement: Orban Loudness Meter. However, I'm not sure how good it is.

I'd be curious to know:
1-) How it compares to Waves
2-) What all its reported measurements actually mean (CBS, ITU BS momentary, ITU BS short term & integrated, VU, PPM, Reconstructed Peak)

Anyone out there able to explain these? And anyone with Waves willing to install this free app and compare it?
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Been using their Optimods for AM and FM for decades now. Extremely high quality products; very robust and they're from the broadcast world so I would be shocked if they had anything with their name on it that wasn't accurate. When you are maintaining broadcast within FCC restrictions there isn't any room for "close enough."

As for your questions: http://orban.com/meter/Technology.html
 
smcrosby said:
More on this please. :encouragement:
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Connected my axefx via USB as soon as you have Logic Pro running.
Download the waves app from waves.com The size is large about 1.2 gb and the licence and level tool is only ones that need to be selected. On the licence tool you can select a demo licence and you have use of the whole plugin for 7 days, time enough to get your levels done once. A full licence is USD400! We need to pool our resources on this one!
Start Logic Pro x and crate a new audio project.
Under Preferences Audio, select AxefxII as your input, display audio as output. The output level should be turned right down.
Show the mixer in your project and in the output strip, insert the waves plugin. When you click on the plugin icon, you should see an image like the image in #1 of this thread.
Changed the input on the axefx to USB. (Output will automatically return on the send USB)
Start Audacity and then under generate -> noise select "pink" and then set the level to 0.5 and a length of say 10 minutes (this will allow a reasonable period of time to change 10-20 presets before you have to restart the playing of the noise.)
Select the output to USB
Start playing the noise. You should see the input led's on the axefx just hitting the amber led level. If not, adjust the output volume in audacity.
You should see the level change in Logic Pro when you adjust the level as described in post #1

Hope this provides enough detail to get you started. Audacity is a free download, just search for it.
 
Isn't that kind of dependant on what you are playing? I don't get all this pink-noise measuring stuff, honestly.
Especially on clean or crunchy presets, the loudness depends alot on the playing dynamics.
 
Intriguing, but I think not good in practice. Just like using your ears, it might be helpful for getting patch levels similar to each other.

But until you hear the patch in the context of a band mix (live or recorded), you'll never really know for sure. As an extreme example, you might have a bright patch with lots of measurable high frequency level, that gets totally masked by a drummer riding a crash cymbal. In that case you'd probably want to use a different patch and shoot the drummer after the gig.

But always good fun to experiment.
 
GM Arts said:
Intriguing, but I think not good in practice. Just like using your ears, it might be helpful for getting patch levels similar to each other.

But until you hear the patch in the context of a band mix (live or recorded), you'll never really know for sure. As an extreme example, you might have a bright patch with lots of measurable high frequency level, that gets totally masked by a drummer riding a crash cymbal. In that case you'd probably want to use a different patch and shoot the drummer after the gig.

But always good fun to experiment.
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It doesn't take the place of correctly EQ'ing a preset to fit in a mix.

This is about getting the perceived loudness of several different presets to be the same.

I'm an advocate for using your ears for everything. IMO, it's beneficial to train your ears / brain in regards to everything audio related.

But there are times when I can't crank to gig volume. Using loudness measurement is just another tool for getting results.
 
^--- yes, I understand. I get my levels similar at home by ear, and usually find I need to make minor adjustments at a gig because of the way they sound in a live band mix. When listening again at home, what sounds even live doesn't sound quite even alone.
 
I do this, essentially, with my Mackie mini-mixer (that has output LED's).

I do it there first; gets me in the ballpark. I then refine it by ear as a final check.

It's ENTIRELY unsophisticated, but it works too.
 
Zwiebelchen said:
Isn't that kind of dependant on what you are playing? I don't get all this pink-noise measuring stuff, honestly.
Especially on clean or crunchy presets, the loudness depends alot on the playing dynamics.
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Well you could always record something in the looper or even just send a loop from your DAW for re-amping.
 
I tried the free ORBAN Loudness Meter on OS X 10.9.1 tonight and it's quite good in so much that it operates well on Mavericks and with the Axe-Fx as the input source. I dig very much that it's standalone and not a VST-hosted application.

I didn't try to feed the Axe-Fx any pink noise, but I'll do that later tonight. Was looking to try Noisy to do the pink noise generation. That'd give me a completely standalone app setup which would be super nice.
 
iaresee said:
I tried the free ORBAN Loudness Meter on OS X 10.9.1 tonight and it's quite good in so much that it operates well on Mavericks and with the Axe-Fx as the input source. I dig very much that it's standalone and not a VST-hosted application.

I didn't try to feed the Axe-Fx any pink noise, but I'll do that later tonight. Was looking to try Noisy to do the pink noise generation. That'd give me a completely standalone app setup which would be super nice.
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Thanks Ian for your post. The ORBAN meter work a treat producing the same results as the $400 Waves version.
 
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