OwnHammer Speaker Cabinets Public Beta (free stuff inside)

VegaBaby said:
cool to hear some of the finer details, Kevin. not that I want you to think to do even more work, and I'm more of a "modern" voicing kinda guy anyway when it comes to cabs and I'm sure los of folks will like a "vintage" option (including myself), how would a "neutral" (or as neutral as possible) option sound ? would that be a waste of time to have almost unaltered IRs or like a middle ground between "modern" and "vintage" ? just a question really...
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The two voicings and the new 'sound' of what I am doing now is more neutral than you'd think, especially in the non-Nebula formats. If you exclude EQ and mic choice & placement, the 'room' provides 95-99% (my opinion, anyway) of the "coloration" or what most will perceive as "color" in the form of destructive interaction. Without the capability of reproducing non-linear behavior (which convolution reverb cannot do), changes in mic preamp - unless the mic preamp has a dramatic deviation from a flat frequency response - will be extremely minimal if not negligible to most ears. In Nebula where non-linearities are captured the difference is more noticeable, but still quite subtle even in a controlled listening environment. In fact, the reason why I'm choosing to have the two voicings differentiate in channel strip and not just in mic preamp are that the inherent equalizer section is needed to really separate the two in a more audible way.

In my preamp shootouts I had one tranformerless and transparent option and I did not like the way it sounded at all. It didn't come out more clear, it just came out more hard and harsh - very unpleasant to listen to. Guitars want transformer saturation in the mic preamp. :) All of the above taken into acount, the "Modern" option is the more neutral sounding of the two. I'll disclose the makes/models of what I chose for final equipment and also what else I shot out to see what it was chosen against closer to or at release of the first library. In the event I make any last minute decisions I don't want to say anything now for the sake of misinformation.

Hope this wasn't too cryptic and actually made sense. :p

*****************

Spence, another kick ass clip man, sounds awesome!
 
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for all of the great work - keep it up!!

I was looking for clarification on the upgrade scenario if I buy one of your Bundle packs right now. It seems clear that I would be entitled to upgraded captures of these cabs when they become available based on your earlier comments in this thread and on your website. However, its not clear to me if I would also get any new cabs that you might capture down the road. On one hand the Bundle includes only the cabs you have done to date, but on the other hand the Bundle is all-inclusive.

Therefore, its not clear to me which upgrades I would get down the road. Does buying now ensure I will always have everything in the WAV bundle for instance or would new cab/speaker combos require additional purchases later?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 
The bundles are merely a way for new customers to get caught up to the current amount of offerings with the least amount of clicks. The core repeat customer framework is called the "Frequency Discount", more info here:

Frequency Discounts : OwnHammer.com - Store

The bundle does nothing more than if you bought each one of the libraries one at a time in serial transactions (i.e. adding them to the cart all at the same time won't discount them). Every time I release a new library, the library gets added to that store item, the price goes up, and the date in the title changes. This, however, does not retroactively add the new library to previous bundle purchases as that's not how things are set up - it changes for new sales only. Further evidence of this is when the date changes on the new bundle, the date in the title of the one you picked up won't change with it. From that point on you'd pick up each new one that you want as it comes out, but it won't be free (but will be discounted as per the discount schedule in the link above). Again, the bundle isn't the core, the Frequency Discount is.

Hope this helps, let me know if I missed anything! :)
 
ownhammer said:
The two voicings and the new 'sound' of what I am doing now is more neutral than you'd think, especially in the non-Nebula formats. If you exclude EQ and mic choice & placement, the 'room' provides 95-99% (my opinion, anyway) of the "coloration" or what most will perceive as "color" in the form of destructive interaction. Without the capability of reproducing non-linear behavior (which convolution reverb cannot do), changes in mic preamp - unless the mic preamp has a dramatic deviation from a flat frequency response - will be extremely minimal if not negligible to most ears. In Nebula where non-linearities are captured the difference is more noticeable, but still quite subtle even in a controlled listening environment. In fact, the reason why I'm choosing to have the two voicings differentiate in channel strip and not just in mic preamp are that the inherent equalizer section is needed to really separate the two in a more audible way.

In my preamp shootouts I had one tranformerless and transparent option and I did not like the way it sounded at all. It didn't come out more clear, it just came out more hard and harsh - very unpleasant to listen to. Guitars want transformer saturation in the mic preamp. :) All of the above taken into acount, the "Modern" option is the more neutral sounding of the two. I'll disclose the makes/models of what I chose for final equipment and also what else I shot out to see what it was chosen against closer to or at release of the first library. In the event I make any last minute decisions I don't want to say anything now for the sake of misinformation.

Hope this wasn't too cryptic and actually made sense. :p
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and again, thanks for the info, Kevin. that made total and absolute sense and wasn't cryptic at all. I guess my reason for asking was that different people define words like "modern", "vintage" and therms like that in very different ways. I heard some people comment that your betas sound "scooped". see, I don't think that at all, they are rather "neutral" to me, if I'd have to describe them. if you call that "modern", fine with me :). looking forward to hear the "vintage" option then.
I also agree on transformer saturation and "saturated" signals in general when recording. makes a huge difference in sound and it's actually what most guitar players are used to from good recorded guitars, if they know it or not. and now get that damn Kickstarter campaign started that we can get some libraries :)
 
Back in the day people said the Earth was flat. Standing on the ground looking out was the primary reference point with which they had to base their opinion. In this same manner could these be considered noticeably scooped; people only have what they are used to as the reference point. I have a much, much higher vantage point to know the facts. Every single time I run a capture session, I pull up a frequency analyzer to calibrate all my settings to the exact values I have specified for them - I know my room is neutral, I know exactly what effect my outboard has, and therefor I know my captures are accurate to the other variables in the equation. However, it is not constructive activity to tell people they are wrong, and I have better things to do with my time than fight on the internet. Feelings get hurt, some people only say what they say because they have a personal or political agenda, and others just close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and say "la la la la la la" until you stop talking and keep repeating the same baseless statement until people give up trying to reason with them. There was a guy who was around here a lot who knew what he was talking about and wasn't afraid to tell you that you didn't. People didn't like it, and I (respectfully) don't have the time or the interest in trying to open minds willfully closed. I'd rather just let bygones be bygones, let them do their own thing, and give power to those that have enough experience with these kinds of things to know better.

Back on topic, the term "Modern" is itself only a relative description. Had I not added "Vintage" voicing, I would have described the sole capture as very (but not entirely) neutral. However, Vintage & Neutral doesn't look as good on a product description bullet list. :p

Very much looking forward to getting the kickstarter campaign going, this weekend I'm taking time off from all but a couple email and forum posts to try to get my sanity back and spend more time with my family. Today was pumpkin patch day with the youngin's, and was tremendously more enjoyable than sitting in front of a keyboard for 20 hours. :)
 
I like the way you're thinking and I like the way you approach your IRs. definitely the most open sounding ones I've heard in a long time and something I've been looking for in IRs since a long time as well.
not taking money and time in regard for a moment. would you consider or even find it important to capture speakers in their "native environment". for example a good old Jensen in a Fender Twin cab or an old Deluxe enclosure ? much like V30s almost belong into a big 4x12 cab ? would that drastically change the outcome in terms of even "more real" or more "accustomed to" sounding ? I know that you've spoken of different speakers being mounted into different cabs, but I'm talking about some of the influential cabs where people almost don't realize what actual speaker is in them. or enclosures that drastically change the overall sound, like those 80s Mesa cabs.
 
Holy balls thats some massive Bulb worshop right there, haha. Is your gate (multiple gates?) pushing that hard, or did you edit the shit out of it?
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Haha cheers man! I don't really write this kind of stuff and i didn't know if people were still going crazy for that kind of tone or not so i thought i'd put it out there.

It is two gates, one before the amp and another after, i brought the threshold right down for that part of the track. You can heard some of note stabs length that are different, i would have edited it to get the note lengths equal if it was a proper song
 
ownhammer said:
The bundles are merely a way for new customers to get caught up to the current amount of offerings with the least amount of clicks. The core repeat customer framework is called the "Frequency Discount", more info here:

Frequency Discounts : OwnHammer.com - Store

The bundle does nothing more than if you bought each one of the libraries one at a time in serial transactions (i.e. adding them to the cart all at the same time won't discount them). Every time I release a new library, the library gets added to that store item, the price goes up, and the date in the title changes. This, however, does not retroactively add the new library to previous bundle purchases as that's not how things are set up - it changes for new sales only. Further evidence of this is when the date changes on the new bundle, the date in the title of the one you picked up won't change with it. From that point on you'd pick up each new one that you want as it comes out, but it won't be free (but will be discounted as per the discount schedule in the link above). Again, the bundle isn't the core, the Frequency Discount is.

Hope this helps, let me know if I missed anything! :)
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin - thanks for the info - that makes complete sense. I am just trying to figure out the best way to get you some capital and provide me with the most product for my buck (i.e. purchase a bundle now vs. participating in the Kickstarter campaign).
 
VegaBaby said:
I like the way you're thinking and I like the way you approach your IRs. definitely the most open sounding ones I've heard in a long time and something I've been looking for in IRs since a long time as well.
not taking money and time in regard for a moment. would you consider or even find it important to capture speakers in their "native environment". for example a good old Jensen in a Fender Twin cab or an old Deluxe enclosure ? much like V30s almost belong into a big 4x12 cab ? would that drastically change the outcome in terms of even "more real" or more "accustomed to" sounding ? I know that you've spoken of different speakers being mounted into different cabs, but I'm talking about some of the influential cabs where people almost don't realize what actual speaker is in them. or enclosures that drastically change the overall sound, like those 80s Mesa cabs.
Click to expand...

I'd think the mentioned term "accustomed to" and also "different" would be more appropriate, really. The combined elements make up a filter, and whether that sounds more authentic to a given person would be how they combine with all the other elements in the equation. Playing devil's advocate, a completely non-native cab/speaker may sound more authentic/real, or simply better to a person than the original equipment. I'd not mind getting my hands on that old gear, but it'd have to be borrowed, more than likely. Additionally, beloved gear and sounds could have garnered favoritism simply because the equipment used was something you got used to as a factor of availability. In the 'good old days' if there were only 5 amps out there to choose from (over exaggerating for the purpose of illustration), and you and everyone you know could only afford 1 or 2 of them, then you're going to make it work some how or another and eventually learn to love and make work for you what you can get out of it. Good music can effect people's admiration for a bad tone as well, so trying to reel in this derailed train of thought - just different sounds, in my opinion.

Ever since it's been mentioned, it's been eating at me to consider adding a 'neutral'-esque option to the list. In fact, it's been driving me insane and making me think crazy thoughts like adding an option called "Natural". Still sleeping on this at the moment...

MGoBlue said:
Hi Kevin - thanks for the info - that makes complete sense. I am just trying to figure out the best way to get you some capital and provide me with the most product for my buck (i.e. purchase a bundle now vs. participating in the Kickstarter campaign).
Click to expand...

The primary difference between the current bundle and the kickstarter bundle is that the current WAV bundle has a defined set of what libraries you get, the kickstarter will be x amount of empty slots that as you make a choice will email me and I'll adjust the database tables to replace the empty slot with a library. Before anyone asks - no, I'm not planning on setting anything like this up later in the store, this is a one time shot at such an option.
 
ownhammer said:
Ever since it's been mentioned, it's been eating at me to consider adding a 'neutral'-esque option to the list. In fact, it's been driving me insane and making me think crazy thoughts like adding an option called "Natural". Still sleeping on this at the moment...
Click to expand...
didn't mean to plant a thought there to rob you of even more sleep :). you could just shoot a little test one and see if it can stand its ground compared to the "modern" and "vintage" version, or if it's even necessary...
 
damn, so excited about this but i really have no time to read through 12 pages (i really don't!)

may someone explain in a few words what makes these impulses different from another ones!?

i did a very very quick test yesterday and the only difference i could hear so far was a massive increase in loudness compared to other IR's...

cheers
S.
 
Soultrash said:
damn, so excited about this but i really have no time to read through 12 pages (i really don't!)

may someone explain in a few words what makes these impulses different from another ones!?

i did a very very quick test yesterday and the only difference i could hear so far was a massive increase in loudness compared to other IR's...

cheers
S.
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I thought Kevin had fixed the volume on the latest version of the BETA. You might want to re-download if that is the case.

Ready to chip in for Kickstarter Kevin so give the word and I'm in.
 
Hey guys!

Thought i'd share this with you all...

I put together a short medley yesterday of a few DT songs.

Another example of these great IR's
This isn't a tone test or anything, i just felt like recording some classic riffs as i haven't listened to them for a while and this has rekindled a love for their music!

There are obviously loads of other riffs i could have added but these are the ones i could play and fit into an acceptable time, so consider it a snapshot.

Enjoy!

Feedback is welcomed!

Justin

 
<-- Massively huge DT fan. Justin - that made my day big time; thank you!!! I can't hit that like button hard enough, haha. :)

fremen said:
Hey Kevin check the latest video I uploaded here : http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...ideo-axe-fx-ii-axe-o-matic-dsp-power-irs.html
There's a section using some of your beta IRs and mixing with Axe-O-Matic DSP.
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Awesome demo, particularly where it comes to showcasing some of the unsung features aomDSP that people may not know about (I don't see auditioning mixes discussed as much as it probably should be), great job!

VegaBaby said:
didn't mean to plant a thought there to rob you of even more sleep :). you could just shoot a little test one and see if it can stand its ground compared to the "modern" and "vintage" version, or if it's even necessary...
Click to expand...

It's no biggie, the problem is that I have had to condense what I'm doing past what I'd like to do purely from an ROI standpoint. However, revelations were illuminated in front of me yesterday as I spent pretty much the entire day (in the time I had alone) just sitting there thinking. Literally, just staring off into space or at the wall and letting the brain crunch. What came out of it was one of those goose bump, 'everything happens for a reason' moments that has pretty much shown me why what I have been doing over the last six months has been so much more important than I thought it was, and how the direction of that work is now much more purposeful than the original intention. Now I have my compass pointed exactly where I need to go, and there are no compromises along the path. As it stands in my head right now, there are going to be 4 voicings - Bold, Classic, Modern, and Vintage - each relative to the use of a different channel strip. Given that each voicing has 4 modes and 9 positions, 4x4x9=144 captures per mic, 10 or so mics plus auxiliary, that's somewhere around 1,750 captures per library that I'm charging less than peanuts for = not worth it from a sustainability standpoint. However, since April I have been working on methods through math library commands to replicate equalizers by applying scripted curve cloning to samples taken directly from hardware. Digital EQ has the bad rap of sounding sterile, however I've spent the last six months experimenting and learning that when you apply an identical digital curve to a piece of audio with the hardware (be it a mic preamp or hardware equalizer) in line as opposed to it just being naked (like digital VST EQ's are), the results can be and often times are a complete recreation of that piece with no practically applicable audible differentiation in sound. I originally did this so I could recreate EQ's for Nebula of things I either couldn't afford or were nostalgia pieces that aren't around anymore. So amidst all this nerd babble, what is the revelation here? Instead of using the hardware EQ's, I can cut the amount of work by a factor of 4 by using my custom EQ scripts (which sound identical as they are being applied to audio run through the saturated hardware) instead of needing to fiddle with and capture all the different outboard EQ options. As such, I can offer many more options, covering pretty much any choice an engineer would typically go for in a commercial studio for all walks of recording electric guitar. The use of EQ here is almost entirely relegated to the Fat, Warm, and Warm & Fat modes, so this element will primarily show up there.

In addition to the core capture and bounce of audio data, I do a lot of scripting when creating these libraries calling multiple different executables for multiple different functions to organize and distribute the files. With just one voicing, my build script was roughly 6,000 lines of code long. Multiply that by 4 voicings, it's going to be around 24,000 just for one library, and there are still many, many manual processes required in addition to that. Matching all the EQ settings and writing that script is going to probably take a week or two, but I can do that while the kickstarter is going.

Again, at a later time when I am 100% certain of all factors, I'll list make/model of hardware in the signal chains for all voicings, and go into more detail on positions and modes.

Day job is kicking my arse today, kickstarter will probably start tomorrow.

Excite! :p
 
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