Output Block Meters?

FractalAudio said:
The meters in the block are pre-fader (Level knobs on front of unit). The LEDs are post-fader. Simple as that.
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I'm trying to grasp this but I don't really know what is meant by pre-fader/post-fader. I have continued issues with getting levels right. Every time I think I have them right, some meter is red. The output LED's I can keep out of the red pretty well, but the ones in the blocks, or using the preset leveling, seem to be red a lot.
 
daacrusher2001 said:
I'm trying to grasp this but I don't really know what is meant by pre-fader/post-fader. I have continued issues with getting levels right. Every time I think I have them right, some meter is red. The output LED's I can keep out of the red pretty well, but the ones in the blocks, or using the preset leveling, seem to be red a lot.
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imo the red on the output block / levelling meters is meaningful in that it tells you, when red, that you are approaching output clipping - if you keep your harder strums just at the start of red on those meters using the amp block level control, then, given there is some buffer there, you will have taken care of any possibility of Axfx output clipping. Get that levelling consistent in all scenes / fx combinations of each preset - use the physical output knob to regulate volume to your monitoring. If you see clipping on the physical front panel led's, you'll probably hear it (you've used up your buffer) - the physical volume knob comes after both the output1 and the physical front panel meters (so the physical volume knob won't make a difference to any meters).
 
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sprint said:
imo the red on the output block / levelling meters is meaningful in that it tells you, when red, that you are approaching output clipping - if you keep your harder strums just at the start of red on those meters using the amp block level control, then, given there is some buffer there, you will have taken care of any possibility of Axfx output clipping. Get that levelling consistent in all scenes / fx combinations of each preset - use the physical output knob to regulate volume to your monitoring. If you see clipping on the physical front panel led's, you'll probably hear it (you've used up your buffer) - the physical volume knob comes after both the output1 and the physical front panel meters (so the physical volume knob won't make a difference to any meters).
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Your guidance about the target output level is correct. Presets should be adjusted to have a peak level at the output block meter of around 2 dB VU.

The problem daacrusher2001, and many before him, is confused about is the use of the red color in the output block meter. If the level is set correctly, that meter will frequently be in the red. This causes confusion because people associate red with clipping on digital or bar meters. When they see the red in a properly adjusted preset, they incorrectly assume the red color means something is wrong, and that's why @daacrusher2001 has come to this thread and posted a message asking for help.

This confusion about the output block meter could probably be avoided if that meter used the more common (for digital/bar meters) yellow instead of red in the 12 to 0 dB range, similar to the front panel layout screen output meter.
 
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I too would prefer some other color besides red to avoid the confusion with clipping, but in fairness it is a VU meter where red above 0 dB is very common.
 
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GlennO said:
Your guidance about the target output level is correct. Presets should be adjusted to have a peak level at the output block meter of around -10 dB.

The problem daacrusher2001, and many before him, is confused about is the use of the red color in the output block meter. If the level is set correctly, that meter will frequently be into the red. This causes confusion because people associate red with clipping on digital or bar meters. When they see the red in a properly adjusted preset, they incorrectly assume the red color means something is wrong, and that's why @daacrusher2001 has come to this thread and posted a message asking for help.

This confusion about the output block meter could probably be avoided if that meter used the more common (for digital/bar meters) yellow instead of red in the -12 to 0 dB range, similar to the front panel meter.
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+1 - yellow would be better on the output1 meters, but once a user knows (as they would reading this thread) that red begins on the output meters with a 12db buffer before clipping, then it becomes a handy indicator of a viable preset level that will make output clipping pretty much impossible to get tripped up by - the intented message I guess.
 
mr_fender said:
but in fairness it is as VU meter where red above 0 dB is very common.
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Common on a needle vu meter, yes. Less so on digital/bar meters, which is why I specifically said that.

If you want to see an example of the more common convention of yellow at 0 dB VU, see the front panel layout screen output VU meters on..........the Axe-FX :).
 
The front panel Out block meter uses the familiar green, yellow, red too. It's green up to 0 dB, yellow up to around +12 dB and red above that. That color scheme is more intuitive for sure. It's just the Axe Edit Out block and Preset Leveling Tool meters that are the potentially confusing ones.
 
Hi all! Guys, because of such answers, users ask such questions. Answer accurately. 1. Keep the output levels in the range up to 0 (you don’t need red at the output at all). When recording, it’s generally better to use -12. Monitor this at the block level.2. On the input indicators there is the concept of tickle red.
 
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