Opinions Wanted: Do You Believe Finger Speed Is A Natural Talent?

Justincase said:
I respectfully disagree....
Click to expand...

This is entirely about work done already. Mozart was most insulted when described as "talented" protesting that nobody had studied the masters and theory more than he and this was to suggest that it was in some way easy for him. Have you seen Rick Beato on perfect pitch and who has it how and why. It's not talent .
 
Hey there

Speed... does it require natural talent? I dont think so, but those who have the talent can raise the bar and who are not that talented, can certainly try to get to that level. Is it possible? I say just go for it and enjoy getting there.
Talent comes from many factors in my opinion.
My guitartalent is absolutely ZERO in my own opinion. My learningcurve on speed without getting sloppy got a boost when I finally got my hands in sync both playing string downwards and upwards and string skipping. It started out with an exercise from JP's Rock discipline where you play on the beat and speed that up 7 clicks once you past the test. Took me 16 days to get to 170 and play it clean. This exercise still is in my warmup session. Frettinghand warmup is essential for me to even play guitar. It gets my mind of daily stuff and into the zone as a matter of speech.

The pickinghand can build the speed, but the freeting hand can double or tripple that speed on the beat with an approach of hammer/pull and sweeprols over the strings. I call it an approach instead of technique, because IMHO a technique is something you study over and over again, and the approach is using your playing ability you learned and play it from your soul.
When i was younger, I learned to type with 10 fingers blind on the keyboard without thinking where the keys are. That is the same thing how i approach the guitar and playing with speed... I try to play natural and not think about it and that is starting to grow on me.

Recently I try to play rhythm guitar like Willy Adler (L.O.G.). Talking about finger movement and speed and sound awesome on the riffs WOW. In my book, that is talent for sure. But drop D does make it a lot more easier to play those riffs. Once you start, the melodic gets in the fingers, only hard part are the BPM.

My bedroom player ZERO talent level has raised some


Cheers
 
Andy Eagle said:
This is entirely about work done already. Mozart was most insulted when described as "talented" protesting that nobody had studied the masters and theory more than he and this was to suggest that it was in some way easy for him. Have you seen Rick Beato on perfect pitch and who has it how and why. It's not talent .
Click to expand...
Then how do you explain musical savants? Your logic is flawed. Some people are born with abilities that are completely unobtainable by study, practice, or hard work. Take aptitude for example. You either have it or you don't. The same applies to the arts. This is why intellectuals like Einstein, composers like Mozart, philosophers like Socrates, and artist like Davinci have been coveted by our society for centuries. That's not to say you can't become "proficient" in a certain area with practice. I believe it's called the 10000 hour rule. However, that rule has been challenged by scientific study.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...lways-make-perfect-violinists-10000-hour-rule

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one Andy
 
Last edited:
I don't believe speed on the guitar is a natural talent, I do agree some people may pick it up easier but ultimately, most people who practiced 8 hours a day in their younger years, can all play fast so I think it just comes down to how dedicated someone is in achieving that. Also have to remember, when comparing our own technique to famous players, well it's a full time job for those guys so unless it's a full time job for us too, I don't think you can expect to equal them.

I expect some people actual physical limiting factors in playing fast but for most of us it's just practice. I think you're far less likely to just practice speed licks as an adult than when you were a youngster - but the goals were different then too, most people wanted to be in a band or be a pro, so they probably put the time in.

Creativity and taste of course is a different issue, loads of great players who are just more creative without blistering speed. Speed isn't necessarily king in my opinion, it's just nice to be able to do a bit when required.
 
Justincase said:
Then how do you explain musical savants? Your logic is flawed. Some people are born with abilities that are completely unobtainable by study, practice, or hard work. Take aptitude for example. You either have it or you don't. The same applies to the arts. This is why intellectuals like Einstein, composers like Mozart, philosophers like Socrates, and artist like Davinci have been coveted by our society for centuries. That's not to say you can't become "proficient" in a certain area with practice. I believe it's called the 10000 hour rule. However, that rule has been challenged by scientific study.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...lways-make-perfect-violinists-10000-hour-rule

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one Andy
Click to expand...

I have to disagree lol... yeah the case you picked out maybe, but that's not in the same context. For some, there are factors for and against when learning to play the guitar, no doubt, but by and large, those who work harder get the rewards, even if they have to work harder to get there than the next guy.
 
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any posts on the value of slow practice. More than one professional guitarist advises playing pieces very slowly and methodically to begin. Just saw an interview with Phil X the other day and he echoed this.

We all want to see those leaps forward in speed, but sometimes you have to take a step back, especially if you detect a flaw in your technique. It hurts the pride to turn the metronome the "wrong" direction, but sometimes that's the thing to do.
 
Paulzx said:
I have to disagree lol... yeah the case you picked out maybe, but that's not in the same context. For some, there are factors for and against when learning to play the guitar, no doubt, but by and large, those who work harder get the rewards, even if they have to work harder to get there than the next guy.
Click to expand...
I agree those that work harder do get the rewards. What I'm saying is natural talent does exist. There are some things people with natural talent and ability can accomplish that no matter how hard you try or practice are unachievable. For example I could practice a lifetime and never play basketball half as good as Micheal Jordan, throw a ball like nolan ryan, or play as fast as Micheal Angelo Batio. If talent didn't exist there wouldn't be talent scouts.
 
Last edited:
There are two types of muscle fiber in the body, Type I or "slow twitch" and Type II or "fast twitch." This is well known to athletes. I would argue that musicians who play instruments proficiently should be considered to have "athletic" capability in a manner of speaking. So it is not surprising that speed and accuracy of playing is going to be limited by the path from the brain to the slow or fast twitch muscle fibers that you may or may not have by genetic predisposition. Obviously there are other factors beyond just physiology as many have mentioned here. But at some point, you are going to run up against a physical limit that will be different for everyone.
 
Troy Grady is a must if you are working on technique. Most of his stuff is focused on picking speed but the concepts can be applied to left hand.

For example, if you can tap your fingers on the table faster than you can fret notes, that is telling. You just need to find a way to trick your brain into using that motion in your playing.

also treat it like you’re going to the gym. Keep track of your progress with a metronome etc.
 
I believe that some people have more natural abilities for guitar than others. It's the same for any skilled endeavor. Hard work has a lot to do with it but some people will get farther given the same amount of work. I'm never going to be a speed demon. Maybe I could if I worked my ass off but some things are just awkward to me. It's always been that way and I started playing 45 years ago.
 
I teach this all the time and every student I have ever had has the same issue. The biggest part of getting fast is being able to hear the subdivisions on rhythm within the context of a song. Merely burning through scales or sweeps or whatever is pointless in order to gain speed. There is no "limit" to how fast your fingers can move if trained to build correct muscle memory. The biggest hurdle is MOST players practice as to where muscle memory and recall becomes their downfall. I can surely help you with getting better at this!
 
Brucegregori said:
I teach this all the time and every student I have ever had has the same issue. The biggest part of getting fast is being able to hear the subdivisions on rhythm within the context of a song.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I do this. For example, one of the things I'm working on is the intro riff to Never Enough by Dream Theater. Since it bounces between fretted notes and the open D string (song's in D standard), on 5 of the 8 beats, that open D falls on the downbeat, which is hard for me to "feel it" on the beat. So I'll play it as slow as I need to, so I can feel each one of those downbeats, before speeding it up. As soon as I lose that beat, I back it back down. I find it much easier to feel a downbeat that falls on a fretted note, so it's a challenging riff. Every now and again I get it about 90% up to speed, and I'm like, YES!!
Brucegregori said:
The biggest hurdle is MOST players practice as to where muscle memory and recall becomes their downfall.
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you mean.
Brucegregori said:
I can surely help you with getting better at this!
Click to expand...
How? Like, video lessons?
 
You can get better with training, as opposed to not practicing, but there are structural factors to movement that can’t be ignored or overcome. How much this affects whether or not you can play what you want to play depends on what that is and where that falls within (or outside) your physical capability.
 
I'm working through the same hurdles you mention. I've found the best success has come by learning the patterns of a lick/solo/scale at a slow temp to get to the point where I don't have to think about where I need to go next. I've found that once I have to engage my brain to think about what I'm doing, then the tension sets in and that slows everything down. When I'm able to focus or listen to the notes and time then it's more relaxed and fluid.
 
I don't think there's a limit as much as there is a limit to peoples willingness to find the flaw and do the work to fix it. 99 times out of 100 when it comes to picking it's the string change mechanics that slows you down. Beyond that it's also what Ben Eller and others have said...there comes a point where you can't count the subdivisions in your head fast not and you just have to start trusting the downbeat notes.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom