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Nothing beats the "TV mix" Cabs, not even UltraRes (Opinion)

Rook

Power User
That info is not available. But here's the pic.
StudioTV.jpg
My guess with that cab was always a 421 with a bit of large diaphragm condenser mixed in for sparkle in the top end; that would probably be the C414 from the pic. But then it has been a few years since I had to mic a guitar cab, so I might be way off...
 

clarky

Axe-Master
just repeated my experiment..
one amp -> one cab [Engl 4x12 New 05]

based on Cliff's comment I went straight to my regular gainier amp choices..
5153Red, HerbertCh3
I repeatedly switched a single amp block back and forth between URes and Normal as I continuously played a palm muted open 6th string

yes.. there is a difference.. even my crap ears can pick it up.. and at low volume too [could hold a conversation over it]..
the low end of the URes cabs is fuller.. not hugely so.. but it's certainly there and in a very pleasing way too..
<EDIT: it's not just an EQ boost either.. it sounds like there's more to it than that :EDIT>
I changed the amp to an Engl Savage1 which is even gainier than my regular choices and the difference is more pronounced..
then I remembered that Cliff preferred the Engl 4x12 New06 [which I thought was a little low end heavy] so I tried this - given that the URes has it's greatest impact on the lower end of things.. and the URes effect is even more pronounced again..

so.. I switched amp to the 65 Bassman and tried again [with the Engl New06].. and yes there is a difference..
but it's really small… I noticed it more in the tone of the pick striking the strings more than the overall low end..
tried again with the 65 Bassman and the Engl New05 [my original experiment] but now focusing my hearing on the voicing of the pick striking the strings..
yes there is a difference.. but it's very easily missed..

then I switched amp to the 59 Bassman and repeated the above experiments.. and even when knowing what to listen for, I could not make out any difference at all..

conclusions:
the effects of URes are more pronounced with higher gain tones..
the effects of URes are more pronounced with low end strong cabs..

that said.. for practice I still prefer the overall tone of two normal res cabs in a stereo block..

how this impacts my choices:
- Studio / Practice presets: I will continue to practice with a stereo block [it is still the biggest / best tone overall to me]
I will look at replacing the AX Mix with the Engl New05, but the jury is still out regarding keeping the TV mix or replacing it with the Engl New04 or TAF Vintage Marshall

- Reamping Presets: I will only reamp in URes
this is because I can reamp the tone twice [different cabs panned hard] and therefore recreate my stereo tone in URes. So in this case CPU / grid footprint is no issue at all.

- Live Presets: makes no difference because I use real 4x12 cabs, cab emulation = off
 
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ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
For me there's two noticeable differences in UR. 1) Volume: It measures and sounds louder. (might not scientifically be louder but audibly yes) 2) Exactly what it is which is a longer IR. If I compare UR to NormalRes I feel like NormalRes is more direct sounding and less roomy but it's an extremely subtle thing even on high gain. But the thing is... NormalRes doesn't sound less real, you just have to know what to listen for and even then I'm not sure which sounds better. Direct can be good in many ways also. NormalRes is tighter and immediate. UltraRes maybe a bit more realistic.

Personally I use UR because it's less CPU and higher resolution. Do I hear a tone difference? I don't really care... I'd probably be happy with NormalRes so ofcourse I'm also happy with UltraRes.

It's definitely not a huge difference especially if you have reverb and delay in your patch. And... sure you might tell the difference when you're listening to a guitar soloed but that's never going to be the case for musicians who play with other musicians which is most of us.
 

solo-act

Fractal Fanatic
I can clearly hear the difference but I've trained myself on what to listen for. I vastly prefer UltraRes and only use UltraRes IRs in my personal patches (aside from the TV Mix, which is just a magical IR).
I concur. Identical experience here.

It may take a while, but someone will deconstruct the "magic" in that TV mix, and that mojo will be another option in future IRs. Looking forward to that.
 

Larry Largen

Inspired
The TV mix has sweet mids! Sounds great with the Friedmans and Marshalls. I did mix a couple of ultra rez cabs that were included in 14fw and got comparable results I liked.
 

jakel

Power User
Thanks to this discussion I went back and retried the TV mix, which I thought lacked mids in previous firmware versions. Now, it's my favorite for Plexi tones! Can't wait to try it at rehearsal later this week. Thanks to the OP and to all who commented about how good it is.
 

Larry Largen

Inspired
My humble opinion is that UltraRes doesn't make an IR better. The difference between UltraRes, HiRes and NormalRes IR's is soooooooo small. I feel like it's all just Nokia-like "we need to sound better on paper than the competition" malarkey. Making people pay more to get the UltraRes versions cracks me up. Sure it's using a longer IR but when even trained ears (not talking about my own) can't really hear a difference I'm saying you're paying for audibly nothing sadly. But once again that's just me.

TV is pretty good for that Marshall thing!

Agreed, don't hear a huge difference.
 

Wintage

Member
Lets have some fun:)

...I haven't played this cab in a rather long time. hooked it up and was rather pleased with how it sounds.

So I made 4 clips

2 are of the TV and 2 are of my personal pairing that i use most of the time

See which one is A and which is B

ENGL A
ENGL B
Marsahall A
Marshall B

I am really loving that redwirez blend of yours. It works wonders for pretty much all my patches, and it can handle any amp sim :)
 

flyingfadr

Power User
I took a wav file of my favorite IR before UltraRes, and created both a HiRes and UltraRes cab. My main preset uses RIDICULOUS amounts of gain... the low end / low mids are MUCH more detailed in the UltraRes version... A/B'ing the 2, the HiRes sounds "smeared" or clouded in comparison... Using CLR's and Genelecs as reference... the difference was immediately noticeable by those in attendance ( by career Recording Engineers, pro guitarists, and hobbyists ).
 

brianv4

Fractal Fanatic
+1 but definitely mixed by Fractal. I really like they way they hear things. I don't have the time or patience to mix by trial and error. If only we could mix cab IR's in real time

I agree, we need a UR Basketweave TV mix.
 

Gamedojo

Power User
Thanks... I agree. I set up that blend and found that most amps respond well with it. This is a big help for me because I use about 15 different patches in my band covering everything from Sly and the Family Stone to Cake and Lady Gaga.

I am really loving that redwirez blend of yours. It works wonders for pretty much all my patches, and it can handle any amp sim :)
 
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