Mid-Size solution - FBT Verve 8ma

Scott Peterson

Scott Peterson

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I posted this in answer to a question on the FBT 12ma thread; but thought it'd be a good time to start a new thread here over the 8ma.

Here's the question I answered and my answer, which I'll use to start this thread:

Tone Seeker said:
[quote="Scott Peterson":udwyn05s]Popping for the 8ma. Just the best fit for my circumstances and needs.

I held the order off till next week to secure funds; but this fits a perfect need in the size/quality/sound value balance.
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An interesting choice Scott. I'll be curious to hear how you find an 8" system after having worked with a 12" system for so long. Given the reduced weight and cost, it might make running stereo more practical. Running two 8's might sound warmer and bigger than a single 12. Then again, a good set of 7" / 8" studio monitors have a lot of low end.

What does an 8ma go for?

Terry.[/quote:udwyn05s]

The 8ma goes down to 80hz or so with authority says someone that owns one and someone I trust. I've worked with the TC-Helicon that has a 6" speaker and only goes down to 100Hz (really 120hz) and it was fine. I've worked with IEM's and I've gone with my QSC and/or house monitors too.

The key to the whole choice is simply size, quality and power. Quality of the sound, quality of the amp to deliver clean power and handle the transients and dynamics I absolutely require. It's less about blasting away on the stage at this point for me and more about hearing myself above the din without the massive size of the QSC.

Everyone keys in on the weight of the QSC... that's not the big issue with me. The big issue with the QSC with me... is the big size of it. The more stages I hit, the more and more I've just found it is not a practical situation. And if I flip it to stand up to take up less floor space... my knees think it sounds very nice. :D

I'm not a stereo guy; I've gone on at length in the past on that issue from my personal perspective. I won't rekindle that debate here. I just run mono, all I want to do is run mono.

I was taken aback how well the TC-Helicon worked in the ensemble type of situation I am now playing a lot with. It's an acoustic setting; but I had the little bugger on the floor aimed squarely at my melon and damn... it was perfect. We are about to shrink the ensemble and play more 'plugged-in' material where I switch to electric and rock out quite a bit. The drummer changes from blasticks and brushes to sticks. I do not feel confident that the TC-Helicon can keep up. After lengthy discussions with Eric (Solo-Act) and some tests he did for me at volume... I have no doubt that this 8ma will do the trick I want. Clarity, even timbre, more volume, better off-axis and solid professional level monitoring.

For me, the 12ma is VERY attractive. But right now, the QSC is here, the QSC is fine and I don't need 'better' than the QSC. I've no drive to improve on what it does. The QSC is loud like a mutha, sounds good and has never once let me down even pushed VERY hard. It's a solid design, well built, 6 year warranty to boot. On bigger stages, it's a killer solution. I've kept up to 100w Marshall half stacks with no issue, and with no apologies. Might the 12ma sound better than the QSC? From almost all that have A/B'd them together (and folks whose opinion I trust)... yes. But that's not my goal. I know my tones are where I want them with the QSC. I've no need or want to simply have 'better' and spend money, go through the process of selling/shipping and such.

I am over trying to replicate 412's and am simply in need of hearing myself no matter what situation. Based Eric's review, I am almost certain that this fits the bill. I dig that it is small and light and I dig the Coax speaker. And I dig everything Eric said about how loud it gets. It will be aimed at my melon, and that's all it needs to do. If I need push, then I use FOH. If things get serious and I need the QSC, I'll rent or borrow one.

The 8ma was $599, the carrying case was $46. Shipping is free. RMC Audio. I highly recommend these folks - really quality people, quality service.

I just realized I've jacked the thread here. I'll post this; but will also start a new 8ma thread too. :D
 
Some guys have asked me really, how tight can a stage get?

Check this promo video they did for a show last month; the opening scene (with the red curtain) was so tight on stage that I basically didn't have a monitor for that show because I brought the QSC and had nowhere to put it. I ended up with it way in front of the female vocalist and the string players... so could not get my levels to myself where I needed them. (I'm easy to spot, just look for the shiny bald head bopping around!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nB6AsWT0KU

In the shots with the gig that have the artwork on the wall behind us, I had the QSC. Fun show. :D

I've had conversations with a lot of folks on the board and off the board about IEM's too. I ended up deciding against them because no one else in this band is using IEM's and it's not logistically workable IMHO due to the nature of this music and this band to be even one ear in/one ear out. I do that at Church every week, but in that situation everyone is on IEM's.
 
Thank Scott. I appreciate the detailed feedback!

So. . . . if space was not an issue. . . if you didn't require high volumes. . . if you didn't already have the QSC. . . . would you go for an 8ma or a 12ma? I'm trying to understand what, if anything, might be lost with the 8" driver versus the 12" in terms of sound quality, and if that difference is subtle or significant.

Terry.
 
Would you say the FBT 8ma is basically a 8" studio monitor in a rugged shell or are they considerably more durable, meaning can they take more volume and punishment than a quality 8" monitor counterpart?
 
Detailed review once it shows up... don't have it yet. :D

OP was to detail the decision process.

I will report once it arrives and it will be put RIGHT into service and on the spot. I've got shows at least once a week for the foreseeable future between Church service every week and then the TSP stuff.
 
Tone Seeker said:
Thank Scott. I appreciate the detailed feedback!

So. . . . if space was not an issue. . . if you didn't require high volumes. . . if you didn't already have the QSC. . . . would you go for an 8ma or a 12ma? I'm trying to understand what, if anything, might be lost with the 8" driver versus the 12" in terms of sound quality, and if that difference is subtle or significant.

Terry.
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Speculation question because I've not heard either.

When I get the 8ma I'll know where it sits in comparison to what I have and have used in the past.
 
Hey Scott, I'm very interested in this thread because I just bought the Ultra and I'm contemplating going with the 8MA's myself. I would love to know how they sit in a live application.
 
Lots of questions on the 8ma, and I've been gigging with one since July last year, so I'll put out what I know. I gig with backing tracks, and have done several gigs where I needed earplugs for protection. It's no live drummer situation, but hearing the 8ma has been no problem on small stages right next to cranked mains. From "1-10" I've never taken it past 6. I'm guessing I had it around 8-9 yesterday to help Scott out--at least twice as loud as I've ever cranked it--and it did the energizer bunny thing. It just kept getting bigger and louder, but remained smooth and surprisingly tight considering I was playing full-range CDs and pumping 80hz on the mixing board. I was chicken shit to turn it up to where the limit light came on...it never did, but I'm sure someone will abuse one soon enough.

About the 8ma and 80hz thing: Anything below 120 has you doubling frequencies in the low power band of the bass (depending on what bass tone you're going after). So I'm not big on dumping more into the sub-100hz range where bass and kick get all their kinetic power, plus it vibrates the stage floor/mic stands, adding low end to open mics in a band situation.

But if you HAVE to have some sub-100hz frequencies, you can boost 60-80hz going into the 8ma. Like its spec sheet says, the lows drop off in loudness as you go below 100hz, so you need bring them up to get the deeper thump going, but again, that's the realm of kick/low bass and those cabinets will bury any sub-100hz lows on the 8ma at skull splitting stage volumes. They're made to put out lows at high DBs, the 8ma doesn't put out high DBs in that freq range. It's low-end DB output sounds similar to the curve on the spec sheet.

We need a few reviews from "loud" gigs to see how it holds up. I have yet to do a gig where it where it wasn't loud enough, but I don't do skull-splitting gigs anymore.

Bottom line for me, it puts out one of the biggest, smoothest sounds for its size and price point, has worked great for quiet to "normal" gig volume gigs on stages huge and miniscule, and you can hear it anywhere you put it (and just about anywhere it goes when a dancer falls over it). I'm impressed with the b&c driver in it, much beefier than I imagined it would be at high volumes.

PS -- a stereo pair, stashed to the left and right on a cramped stage, that would be pretty cool.
 
solo-act said:
But if you HAVE to have some sub-100hz frequencies, you can boost 60-80hz going into the 8ma. Like its spec sheet says, the lows drop off in loudness as you go below 100hz, so you need bring them up to get the deeper thump going, but again, that's the realm of kick/low bass and those cabinets will bury any sub-100hz lows on the 8ma at skull splitting stage volumes. They're made to put out lows at high DBs, the 8ma doesn't put out high DBs in that freq range. It's low-end DB output sounds similar to the curve on the spec sheet.
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Solo-Act

Thanks for all the explanations and details.

I still may go with a pair of 8ma's and a sub for drums in the future

I'm not getting what you mean by "those cabinets" ...Are you talking about something apart from the 8 ma?

Thanks Again



sorry if I sound clear as mud
 
Groovey Records said:
I'm not getting what you mean by "those cabinets" ...Are you talking about something apart from the 8 ma?
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I was alluding to the 4x10 or 1x15 of a bass player's rig, and the dual 15s or 18s of a PA. If those are thundering too loud they'll bury any rumble and thump coming out of the 8ma -- that's an educated guess. Odds are they will, but with the 8ma on the floor nearby I think a player could still hear themselves even at a loud gig.
 
solo-act said:
But if you HAVE to have some sub-100hz frequencies, you can boost 60-80hz going into the 8ma. Like its spec sheet says, the lows drop off in loudness as you go below 100hz, so you need bring them up to get the deeper thump going, but again, that's the realm of kick/low bass and those cabinets will bury any sub-100hz lows on the 8ma at skull splitting stage volumes. They're made to put out lows at high DBs, the 8ma doesn't put out high DBs in that freq range. It's low-end DB output sounds similar to the curve on the spec sheet.
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If I'm not mistaken, low E on a 6 string guitar is 83 Hz, well into the area of concern. However, the same is true for the 12ma and (I assume) a typical 12" guitar speaker. Maybe we're used to hearing the bottom end fall off, and that is part of what a regular guitar amp is all about. The question to consider is whether this is already occurring as part of the speaker model and if so, is an ideal FRFR system flat down to 83Hz? As that is not practical, we either turn up the bass in the amp sim, or eq the FRFR output to compensate. Following that logic, the 12ma would require a bit less "compensation" than the 8ma.

solo-act said:
Bottom line for me, it puts out one of the biggest, smoothest sounds for its size and price point, has worked great for quiet to "normal" gig volume gigs on stages huge and miniscule, and you can hear it anywhere you put it (and just about anywhere it goes when a dancer falls over it). I'm impressed with the b&c driver in it, much beefier than I imagined it would be at high volumes.
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That's very encouraging to hear solo-act. Your detailed comments are appreciated!

How "coloured" or "un-coloured" do you find the 8ma? While I don't expect it to equal studio monitors in terms of flatness, is it at least in the ballpark? I ask because the powered monitors I've tried have all been quite coloured compared to my studio monitors, be it too bright, too "bity" due to a strong upper mid, or some other colouration. I'm looking for a FRFR solution that adds relatively little "character" or "colouration" to the AxeFX tone.

Terry.
 
RCarter said:
mitch236 said:
Is it vacation time in Italy? Did you see that every Verve is out of stock???
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No, and tomorrow I'm gonna buy a Verve 12 ma :twisted: :p
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What are they going for in Italy? I got a friend going there for vacation in a month or so...
 
What would be interesting is for someone to do a back to back comparo of the 12ma and the 8ma. If I could get away with the 8ma, it would save alot of space and lifting!
 
I went ahead and orderd an 8ma from Springtree.net this morning. Their price was actually even better than RMC.

Having an 8ma as an alternative/backup would be sweet - I can always use it as an extra stage monitor too.
 
mitch236 said:
What would be interesting is for someone to do a back to back comparo of the 12ma and the 8ma. If I could get away with the 8ma, it would save alot of space and lifting!
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I have a 12ma already so I'll be able to do a comparison later this week when the 8ma arrives.
 
hippietim said:
mitch236 said:
What would be interesting is for someone to do a back to back comparo of the 12ma and the 8ma. If I could get away with the 8ma, it would save alot of space and lifting!
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I have a 12ma already so I'll be able to do a comparison later this week when the 8ma arrives.
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Please do.
 
hippietim said:
I have a 12ma already so I'll be able to do a comparison later this week when the 8ma arrives.
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Cool. I bet the 8ma will sound significantly smaller, plus the cone size makes them different animals sonically. I'll guess the 8ma will sound like the 12ma's smaller brother, but a tough, tenacious little brother nonetheless.
 
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