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Wish Matching cab suggestion

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
agreed. i always think that the Preset is the best way to have "matched amps and cabs." either free or paid, the Preset allows someone to curate exactly what someone wants. rather than the machine trying to figure out what "ideal" means to you. there are millions of guitar players and the same amount of opinions of "good" "ideal" "best" and all the other words like that.
Yup. It's not nearly enough to pull up an amp at its defaults and a "matching" IR and have it all work. Time spent dialing in the amp for the IR is what is always needed and that's something that's independent of the IR used.
 

chris

Legend!
@chris I think a lot of it is psychological. I'm sure there are tons of cabs that sound great with all the amps, but there's that mental factor that has you questioning if the sound you're hearing, even though it may be good coming form 1x4" speaker, couldn't be better if it were coming from the actual cab that went with the amp. We hear tone with our eyes and judge tone based on what we think should be the correct configuration. So you're right, but the psychological aspect can't be ignored, no matter how immaterial it may actually be in a technical sense.

Interesting thing to note, too, is that I did end up taking a poll on the Helix page and the "amp+cab" block got the fewest votes by FAR. I think, though, in a way it's not fair since you can only have ONE cab, which cripples things if you're going for a bigger, stereo sound. It's a good starting point but it pigeon-holes you into only using a single mono cab. In any case, IRs and multiple cabs were the most popular.
not sure exactly your point.

but i'll say this: back in the Ultra days. i once made 2 recordings, one called Real Amp, and one called Axe-Fx. i played them back to back and had people guess which was which. after a bunch of guess were made i revealed the answer.

i said Recording 1 was the Axe, a Mesa amp, and Recording 2 was a real Diezel VH4 through a Diezel 2x12 cab.

comments followed like "see i knew i was right" and "yeah of course Rec 2 is the real amp because of the smooth high end, it just sounds more real" etc.

then after a bit i said "OH NO. sorry everyone, i mixed up the recordings and it's the opposite! Rec 1 is the real Diezel, and Rec 2 is the Axe mesa."

no shock to me, the same people who were like "yeah i knew what i was talking about" suddenly were saying "ohhhhh yeah i KNEW that Rec 1 was the real amp because of the high end fizz in Rec 2." basically the opposite of what they just said earlier.

so much of audio and interpretation is linked to what our eyes and mind believes. if you tell someone THIS WATER IS HOT! and put their hand in it they go OMG OWWWWW even though it's cold water. if you tell someone "wow this strawberry ice cream is amazing!" they think it's strawberry at first even though it's raspberry. these things have been proven time and time again.

it's no different with audio, and people can fool themselves into thinking whatever they want regardless of how obvious the reality is.

some of us here try to part the clouds with years of experience and explaining these concepts, and (no real fault to them) many people just don't believe us and tell us to get a life. then after some time, they first-hand experience what we were trying to tell them, and they're like wtf. *shrug* par for the course.

people can believe what they want and request features to make things easier or faster. but some of us keep saying the same things for years because it's true. we all learn at our own pace, and it is what it is. as i said earlier, ideally people want to turn on the axe, spin one dial and instantly have a "good" tone that sounds exactly like Metallica, or Larry Carlton, or U2, or you name it. if it was really that easy, we would have had it by now. we're over 10 years into the Axe-Fx gear, FAS is really good at this. yet we don't have an instant "sound like ___" button yet. there must be a reason.
 

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
FWIW, I always felt the Amp+Cab blocks on Helix sounded putrid compared to using an amp with 3rd party IR...
the current best alternative as stated multiple times here....the AustinBuddy Naked Amps have superb matched cabs options.....
Points given for working putrid into a sentence!
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
It could potentially be easy to implement
If you go pull up an a 1959 slp when you drop your cab block on the grid it will see what amp you have and default itself to the matching cab and if you want a different one you just scroll from that point
Like instead of the cab block defaulting to factory cab one it would end up on 257 Or which ever cab matches for that model
Dynamic default cab block
Depends on what amp you have on the grid before it
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
I’m confused if you feel matching cab options in general is a bad idea or if selecting an amp just because is a bad idea. Also, do you feel the current IR picker can be improved on as far as file management (like I suggested upthread)
It's not a yes or no answer. Who gets to decide which cabs are the best match for each amp block? I for one would hate any kind of automation that automatically chooses an IR based on which amp sim I'm using and I think most people would agree. BUT!! If I could choose my personal favorite IR's for each amp sim then that's a different story but even then... what happens when you replace a user IR slot that you assigned as the favorite for one amp sim? Things get complicated.
 

chris

Legend!
It could potentially be easy to implement
If you go pull up an a 1959 slp when you drop your cab block on the grid it will see what amp you have and default itself to the matching cab and if you want a different one you just scroll from that point
Like instead of the cab block defaulting to factory cab one it would end up on 257 Or which ever cab matches for that model
Dynamic default cab block
Depends on what amp you have on the grid before it
what if you have 2 amp blocks?
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
It's not a yes or no answer. Who gets to decide which cabs are the best match for each amp block? I for one would hate any kind of automation that automatically chooses an IR based on which amp sim I'm using and I think most people would agree. BUT!! If I could choose my personal favorite IR's for each amp sim then that's a different story but even then... what happens when you replace a user IR slot that you assigned as the favorite for one amp sim? Things get complicated.
Either way it’s still defaults to a cab you are going to have to change from anyways so it may as well default to the amps cab
 

Patzag

Fractal Fanatic
what if you have 2 amp blocks?
You can use 2 cab blocks. Or not. It's a choice. If the Cab block offers a dropdown menu "basics" IR listed by Amp type, then its still the user's choice.
It offers a starting point. It's not necessarily a destination, just a place to start from for those who want to use a matching cab. It would be relatively easy to compile and the Beta testers can have a field day proposing a list of suitable IRs.
 

shatteredsquare

Power User
Definitely needs to be an option toggle though. The one thing about a POD that drove me stupid was not being able to leave the cab on recto 4x12 when I'm scrolling through amps, there was no way around it, each amp had one cab it was tied to that loaded up automatically. Drove me insane!
 
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chris

Legend!
You can use 2 cab blocks. Or not. It's a choice. If the Cab block offers a dropdown menu "basics" IR listed by Amp type, then its still the user's choice.
It offers a starting point. It's not necessarily a destination, just a place to start from for those who want to use a matching cab. It would be relatively easy to compile and the Beta testers can have a field day proposing a list of suitable IRs.
I was referring specifically to the suggested “automatic” process, not a general question.
 

dumbeat

Inspired
I think it is a very good idea to have a drop down menu, or a "Limited Selection" with pre matched Cabinets for a given amp. Its not always the right time to audition 2000 speaker cabinets nor to memorize what is what... some of them few left grey cells may be needed for remembering song forms and chord changes...

Looks like there is a growing desire for the Axe Fx to perform on 2 levels/layers:
1.Scientific, tweaker mode.
2.Musical performance mode, fast, friendly.

I believe Fractal should not limit their user base to one type of users since the technology is already in it. Its not requiring more design, just a little bit of GUI additions.

As it was clear from people's reaction to the Authentic Controls, there is a serious market for the simple fast workflow.
I have one foot here and one foot there. Sometimes i enjoy tweak madness and sometimes i want a few simple controls to get good usable, matced sounds fast like i get on my real amps and cabinets that were matched and layed out for me by the designers of the gear.

I know many potential Fractal users who are intimidated by the depth of the product as they do not see a "Performer" mode (since it does not exist). That's a bit of a shame since they have to resort to lesser sounding devices for this reason only.

I think even the tweak snobs should advocate more users to join in as it would bring more business = more R&D for you.
 
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unix-guy

Legend!
Its not requiring more design, just a little bit of GUI additions.
My guess is you've never written code?

People make statements like this with NO idea of what is behind "a little bit of GUI additions".

First off, how does the Amp block know what cab(s) are recommended? This needs to be stored somewhere in the firmware.

Second, how is the associated IR value passed to the Cab block?

That is design. It is always required.

As someone who has coded, I get very frustrated on behalf of Fractal when someone says "simply do X" with no clue what goes into X.
 

dumbeat

Inspired
My guess is you've never written code?

People make statements like this with NO idea of what is behind "a little bit of GUI additions".

First off, how does the Amp block know what cab(s) are recommended? This needs to be stored somewhere in the firmware.

Second, how is the associated IR value passed to the Cab block?

That is design. It is always required.

As someone who has coded, I get very frustrated on behalf of Fractal when someone says "simply do X" with no clue what goes into X.

OK, lets not do it then.
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
On the same token, lets refrain from speaking for Fractal on what is possible and what is not in a "Wish" Thread...
Agreed?
No. On that you'll have to endure. That's definitely above board discussion around here.

Edit: I should clarify that I'm not providing an edict when I mention the armchair software development. Go ahead and speculate away. I'm providing some context on why you look like an a total jerk when you do it.
 

dumbeat

Inspired
No. On that you'll have to endure. That's definitely above board discussion around here.

So intimidating and depressing one's wish on a wish list is cool, but assuming the level of ease of the implementation is, god forbid, crossing the line... Ok then. Its your world here, so call the shots.
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
So intimidating and depressing one's wish on a wish list is cool, but assuming the level of ease of the implementation is, god forbid, crossing the line... Ok then. Its your world here, so call the shots.
I ammended my post but I'll repeat it here:

I should clarify that I'm not providing an edict when I mention the armchair software development. Go ahead and speculate away. I'm providing some context on why you look like an a total jerk when you do it.
 
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