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Wish Matching cab suggestion

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
would love to see the amp block have a button that possibly launches a cab block with maybe the original matching cab or similar. It would really save time scrolling thru factory content and would also allow us to hear the amp as its intended when demoing sounds.
 

decreebass

Experienced
Completely agree. This is what makes the Helix so infinitely more approachable (don't get me wrong; I love BOTH units) - the "Amp+Cab" block. No fuss, no muss. With one click, you can have the bones of a great basic tone without having to sort through thousands of IRs.

THis is actually why I bought AustinBuddy's naked amps presets! Every amp is already dialed in to a basic tone with an appropriate cab(s). Then I just delete the bits I don't plan on using. They're great foundational presets. I don't buy into the full-on, fully produced paid presets, but AB did something VERY right with this. This is all to say that yes; having a 'matching' cab automatically pop up when you add an amp block (or at least have the option in a toggle switch or something) would be a VERY useful feature. With the implementation of the Authentic page for editing tones, this seems like the next natural extension of that philosophy.

So yeah; a BIG +1
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
What if it’s an amp head that didn’t have a factory cabinet ?

What if it’s an amp head that may have included a factory cab but many players used soemthing different ?

What is the proper cab for a range of Plexi models ? V30 loaded, GB’s, etc ?
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
What if it’s an amp head that didn’t have a factory cabinet ?

What if it’s an amp head that may have included a factory cab but many players used soemthing different ?

What is the proper cab for a range of Plexi models ? V30 loaded, GB’s, etc ?
Then something generic that makes sense as a starting point so you aren’t starting off with a plexi thru a 1x10 open back cab or some other horrible mismatch.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Then something generic that makes sense as a starting point so you aren’t starting off with a plexi thru a 1x10 open back cab or some other horrible mismatch.

See my point though ? Who is going to make the judgement of what makes sense ? Do we take a poll to determine “the best” choice for each ? Do we let Cliff tell us what he thinks ? I’d volunteer but my choices are probably ones some might say are horrible mismatches as I love things like the 4x1 TV Mix cab on small Fender combos lol.


Why not simply let the user select a global “default” cab, so when you load an amp, you get your own starting point, and can go from there ?

That way your getting something you like, and can adjust as needed ?

That is how it worked for most of my hardware playing life. I bought a new amp and I’d connect it to my favorite cab. I didn’t buy a new cab with each amp, I had a cab which was “my sound” and I went from there.
 

shatteredsquare

Power User
90% of amps are manufactured with a matching cab, and 100% of those matching cabs show a distinct pattern of manufacturer speaker preference of some sort. The amps were built using a particular speaker as basically part of the amp, filters were placed based on the sound coming out of that speaker, so there is 'a' sound that serves as center.

In the same vein as having authentic amp controls shown, since I have no idea what 80% of the amps even are...I also have no idea what speaker a Carol Anne or Bad Cat or Bassman is supposed to use unless I Google dive. Having some kind of default cab link available, or some kind of speaker impedance curve defaults available would do the same accessibility enhancement that this new authentic amp tone controls have done.

Mesa uses V30 or Black Shadow, Marshall either G12T-75 or greenbacks...etc etc...

...a drop-down list of speaker page settings so my lazy butt can match the impedance curve to the IR I loaded up without having to enroll in school again.

1. G12T-75 1x12
2. G12T-75 2x12
3. G12T-75 4x12
4. V30 1x12
5. V30 2x12
6. V30 4x12
7. Greenback 1x12 (25 watt)
8. Greenback 2x12 (50 watt)
9. Greenback 4x12 (100 watt)
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
See my point though ? Who is going to make the judgement of what makes sense ? Do we take a poll to determine “the best” choice for each ? Do we let Cliff tell us what he thinks ? I’d volunteer but my choices are probably ones some might say are horrible mismatches as I love things like the 4x1 TV Mix cab on small Fender combos lol.


Why not simply let the user select a global “default” cab, so when you load an amp, you get your own starting point, and can go from there ?

That way your getting something you like, and can adjust as needed ?

That is how it worked for most of my hardware playing life. I bought a new amp and I’d connect it to my favorite cab. I didn’t buy a new cab with each amp, I had a cab which was “my sound” and I went from there.
Did you connect your fender champ to your favorite 4x12? A good part of the amps are combos with specific speaker configurations. Why shouldn’t that model offer up a more appropriate IR? I’d also be happy with an option to user assign an IR to each amp model so that would be offered by default in future instances. Maybe this is something that can also be toggled on and off as an option (assign user favorite IR ON/OFF). I just think starting out with a cab block that is unaware of the amp being used lends to a bit more tedious of a workflow.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Did you connect your fender champ to your favorite 4x12? A good part of the amps are combos with specific speaker configurations. Why shouldn’t that model offer up a more appropriate IR? I’d also be happy with an option to user assign an IR to each amp model so that would be offered by default in future instances. Maybe this is something that can also be toggled on and off as an option (assign user favorite IR ON/OFF). I just think starting out with a cab block that is unaware of the amp being used lends to a bit more tedious of a workflow.

I’ve never owned a Champ but I did run my Bassman, Princeton and Deluxe into a GB loaded Marshall 4x12. It was a sweet cab, 1970s large checkerboard grill cloth, speakers were nicely broken in.... kind of miss it but it was so heavy...

I just never really liked the sound of most 1x10 and 1x12 open back combos, at least usually with the stock speakers. Not an uncommon thing as there are hundreds of threads on forums about speaker swaps for Fender combo amps.

Thing is, i didn’t know, or consider for a while that I could even do that. I think I had some impedance mismatch with my Bassman but those old trannies probably didn’t care. Got a cab switch and then found I could have different amps or heads into one cab and it was awesome.

Did they design a Princeton thinking it would drive a 4x12 ? Probably not, but do I care ? Not in the least. I simply am concerned with what sounds good to me. That in my mind is the problem with default pairings, it’s simply what one should do, based on what someone else thinks. If there are no “rules”, a user simply picks a cab they like, that sounds good.

When you get into “you are supposed to’s”, as in, you are supposed to use this cab with this amp because that is how they originally sold it, then your not letting your ears guide you, your letting an old product catalog tell you what to do. Then instead of enjoying your Princeton tone, your using it with a 1x10 and maybe you hate that boxy sound.

Simply saying here are a bunch of amps, here are a bunch of cabs, match up what YOU like is the best possible advice, IMO

If a user then asks “is this right, is this best?” you simply ask, “do you like how it sounds?” and if they say yes, then there is your answer.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
What if you're a 9 to 5 blue collar Joe with no sense of audio gear technical understanding, and every time you try to science your Axe-Fx, your ears guide you off of a cliff. Blue collar Joe just wants to play man.


How can one’s own ears be wrong ?

Turn the knob and play, how does it sound ? Turn knob again, play ? How does it sound ?

Heck, use the looper and just sit and listen as you try different cabs ? Or I think you can still use Fractool to automatically audition a new cab every 10 seconds or so.

There is no absolute right or wrong in music. There are so many guys whose tone I think is utter garbage but they like it, and that is what matters. People probably think my tone is crap too, but it’s what I like, so who cares ?

It’s like telling a painter they should of used a different color, put a tree somewhere else etc. it’s their painting, so their choices. Do your own painting with colors you like.

Life is full of rules, things we have to do, taxes, speed limits, etc. At least in music (or painting lol) we can be free
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
I’d wager most guitar players are more on the side of plug and play as opposed to the geekier among us who want infinite controls. Sure you can somehow jam 21” wheels on your Prius, but it’s not really the way it’s supposed to go down the highway, is it? Of course I LIKE being able to mismatch whatever I can think of. I just think a good starting point to what would be typical of the amp selected would be a good ........starting point.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
yeah but blue collar Joe is not an amp designer for a reason.

Blue collar Joe: "hey mechanic, my car won't start."

Mechanic: "just turn some nuts, mess with the wiring, see what happens. You'll figure it out."


Selecting a cab does not require any more ability than turning a single knob. If “joe” is smart enough to change presets, he can change the cab IR.

Is anyone really using their Axe with preset 001 because it’s not plug and play enough for them to scroll through presets ?

That would be like taking your car in saying the AC doesn’t work and you can’t be bothered to turn on the Ac blower knob and make sure the temp dial is set cold. Or saying the radio is too loud and not wanting to adjust the volume knob.

Amps required some user interaction, hardware or software. You didn’t pull an amp out of the box and plug it in, everything at 0 and have it sound good. You turn up the gain to where you like, adjust the tone, output etc. Same with pedals etc.

I’ve never bought a pedal that came out of the box with every knob set ideally for my unique amp, guitar, playing style etc. You plug it in, listen and adjust. Not hard.


I guess maybe if your A list guitar hero you have a tech who goes and buys a bunch of gear, dials it all in based on what they know you like based on 20 years working together, and you roll in after getting up noon, Strum a few chords and say “yay” or “nay” and he goes back to working on it, it’s that way, but every piece of gear I’ve ever owned has required some adjusting to taste.
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
I’d wager an overwhelming number of players who buy combo amps play those amps as they were built until there’s a problem. Turning a treble knob to taste is expected, seeing if your amp sounds better thru a multitude of cab/mic/mic pre combos isn’t something I feel a majority of players care too much about. Some? Sure. Me to an extent? Yup. I’d still like to see a faster starting point somewhere in a future update.
 

decreebass

Experienced
Dang, @lqdsnddist , you're quite the contrarian lately, eh? It's cool that you have such a vast knowledge and experience with all the different amps and cabs, but the bottom line is that many people don't; and we actually desire the ease of use that this suggestion would facilitate.

You're literally the only one in this thread suggesting it wouldn't be a game-changing improvement (doesn't mean you're wrong, of course). I haven't taken a poll (though I should) on the Helix forum to see who uses the "amp+cab" block versus amp & cab of their choice or amp and an IR, but having the ideally matched cab would hands-down be a great option. No one's saying that choosing an amp should ALWAYS create a cab block, overwriting what you more advanced users already picked, just that it should be easier and quicker so us regular Joes don't have to dig through thousands of IRs to find some half-decent one.

That said, I do like your idea of having a default cab and maybe having an option that makes THAT pop in when you pick an amp. After all, when you're at home and just have a Mesa 4x12, and a bunch of heads, you're gonna play them all through that head, since that's the gear you have. This wouldn't be a bad thing either - but I'm still an advocate for matching cabs to amps automatically (as an option, obviously).
 

chris

Legend!
i understand this desire, going almost hand in hand with the "authentic controls" thing we've gotten lately.

but i've basically been using the same exact factory IRs for years through all the iterations of my presets with different amps, cabs, and drives. and it sounds great to me! it's just an interesting juxtaposition.
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
We can already color code cabs and I actually have a few of my favorites memorized, it’s just more of a workflow issue to me sometimes. And yes, I pulled up one of the Dr Z amps today and had NO IDEA what I should use cab wise. Hunted and pecked around. Default cab would have been a good starting point v
 

chris

Legend!
I pulled up one of the Dr Z amps today and had NO IDEA what I should use cab wise.
I’m not arguing at all but curious when do you know you’ve chosen a “correct” cab?

What if someone recommends an actually “incorrect” cab to you, but it sounds good and you thought it was correct so you go with it? Play for years with the “wrong” cab yet it worked great.

I think that’s why people disagree about there being a correct or intended cab. I mean why do we even have a 1x8 model if that’s not “correct” for any of the amps?

Again truly not arguing, just talking it out. I understand this is for a “starting point” but still, a starting point to one person is not the same to another.

I honestly think this and other similar conversations really boil down to “I want someone to tell me what settings to use so I can just play.” It’s not a bad wish. It’s a concept for all gear since for a long time now. With digital, people buy an Axe and wonder why they don’t sound exactly like the record or like that guy on YouTube even with the same preset.
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Experienced
I’m not arguing at all but curious when do you know you’ve chosen a “correct” cab?

What if someone recommends an actually “incorrect” cab to you, but it sounds good and you thought it was correct so you go with it? Play for years with the “wrong” cab yet it worked great.

I think that’s why people disagree about there being a correct or intended cab. I mean why do we even have a 1x8 model if that’s not “correct” for any of the amps?

Again truly not arguing, just talking it out. I understand this is for a “starting point” but still, a starting point to one person is not the same to another.

I honestly think this and other similar conversations really boil down to “I want someone to tell me what settings to use so I can just play.” It’s not a bad wish. It’s a concept for all gear since for a long time now. With digital, people buy an Axe and wonder why they don’t sound exactly like the record or like that guy on YouTube even with the same preset.
I’d guess the intended cab would be the branded companion cab (recto for the Mesa stuff, etc) or the typical cab that makes sense for the amp ( twin would have open back 2x12 if the twin itself has no IR). Of course the right cab can be subjective, but for a plug and play experience, I’d trust fractals judgement as a good starting point. You’re right in that the cab that sounds good is good, and scrolling thru endless libraries of cabs is an effective approach and one I’ll take sometimes, but I’d like to hear how the amp was intended to sound as well. If MESA was trying to sell me a triple rec, you’d better believe it would be with their cab.
 
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