Live Workflow for Cover Bands - Song Lists vs Complex Presets

Reaper said:
Like @Ventanaman I'm in a cover band with about 60 active songs so would prefer a per song preset set up. But pending the long time promised song / set list functionality to be implemented at the moment stick to a kitchen sink preset / preset template. As @Smittefar I run into the CPU maxing out issue so hope set / song list will be first after Cygnus.
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To be honest, I don’t really understand why there isn’t already a setlist option in FAS products. It seems to me as something relatively easy to develop although I’ll be the first to admit that software development is probably more complicated than we think. At any rate, it would be so awesome to have this in the FM3.
 
I have individual presets for certain more complex songs, and generic presets which work for multiple ‘more basic‘ songs.
I leave them all in the preset positions, and over time I can remember their locations on the FC.
A lot of the time, my band don’t stick rigidly to a set list, and we may change on the fly depending on how the audience is reacting. Therefore it’s not worth organising set lists per gig.
So for example if I need my AC30 preset, I know it’s in bank 5, third one along. Or if I need my specific preset for ‘London Calling’ i know it’s in bank 10, second one along.
I currently have 15 x banks of 5 presets and I pretty much know where they all are instinctively.

Of course it’s all relative, as we haven’t been allowed to gig in over a year now.....
 
craiguitar said:
I have individual presets for certain more complex songs, and generic presets which work for multiple ‘more basic‘ songs.
I leave them all in the preset positions, and over time I can remember their locations on the FC.
A lot of the time, my band don’t stick rigidly to a set list, and we may change on the fly depending on how the audience is reacting. Therefore it’s not worth organising set lists per gig.
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Similar approach here.
I have one "kitchen sink" preset with 4 amp models and a basic set of FX. With a MIDI controller I can select the amp block channel independent of everything else, then I have command lists programmed into the MIDI board to turn the various FX on and off and select channels. This covers most of my playing needs; 20 or so FX programs with 4 amp gain levels and a boost switch gives a total of 160 combinations.

Within those 2 main Presets I then have Scenes built for song-specific delays and virtual capo. 16 Scenes in the 2 Presets goes a long way, and with the above generic setup, this will cover almost any band gig.

I also have a list of song-specific presets that don't ever seem to get used in actual performance.
 
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seeu22 said:
As a gigging musician and a sound tech, I'm not a fan of song specific presets unless your talking song specific effects, delay times, etc. Give me a couple of basic tones to cover the night and add which ever flavor of effect the song needs. My band plays 80's to modern pop/rock and newer country. I have my patches set up on a fender rig, a Class A rig and a hot rodded marshall rig and I can cover the entire night. I have my scenes set up for different variations and gain levels of the above tones. Tap tempo to match the songs BMP. I use the FC12 in performer mode to function like a real pedal board.

I find guys I tech for that use too many different presets end up spending half the night buried in the mix. We're performing live, not recording an album.
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Even though I have a preset for each song, I stick to a handful of amp models and make small adjustments for the specific song. I agree completely with the notion that using wildly different tones live is just an unnecessary headache to impose on the sound guy.
 
Purplestrats said:
Even though I have a preset for each song, I stick to a handful of amp models and make small adjustments for the specific song. I agree completely with the notion that using wildly different tones live is just an unnecessary headache to impose on the sound guy.
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I follow this approach, as well, but I'm not sure that I follow the reasoning for the sound tech.

If I change from electric to acoustic, that's a bigger sonic change than a Marshall to a Fender.

When the keyboard player goes from piano to B3 to fat synth, that's really no different from a major model change, right?
 
FullThrottle64 said:
I follow this approach, as well, but I'm not sure that I follow the reasoning for the sound tech.

If I change from electric to acoustic, that's a bigger sonic change than a Marshall to a Fender.

When the keyboard player goes from piano to B3 to fat synth, that's really no different from a major model change, right?
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Depends how well the band has it's own mix dialed in I suppose, but if the rythm guitarist is going from a recto to a friedman to a 5153 to a herbie from song to song, the sound guy might struggle to dial in a good FOH mix. We are a 3 guitar band, so when our guitar tones finally sit well together we prefer not to mess with it too much.
 
Ventanaman said:
I play in a 90’s cover band with about 60 or songs in the current rotation. I just finished re-creating all of my AxeFxII presets in the III, and the associated FC12 programming - and I am very impressed, especially withe the FC12 customization.

I have been able to get the 60 songs into 5 presets, if I really squeeze. But, just to experiment, I took some of the more complex songs and made song-specific presets.

After a couple of rehearsals, I am coming to the conclusion that song-specific presets may be the way to go, especially for cover bands. Since there is sufficient memory in the III, I can keep a Master List of songs, and then copy/paste into the first several banks for a gig-specific set list.

Who else is using this workflow/strategy, and am I missing anything?

-VM
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I have a preset for each song in the order that we normally perform them. I use scenes within each preset to switch to different guitar sounds such as an acoustic intro which leads to a higher gain once the song itself starts. I have a Morningstar MC8 for effects such as Drive 1 & 2, Flanger, Delay, etc. I have the two outermost switches on that set to bank up and down through the presets. The switches on the unit itself are set to Scene + and - and tuner. Works well for me.

I also have my iPad running on my mic stand and I use FracPad during rehearsal to quickly pick a preset so they don't have to wait for me use footswitches to get to a preset out of order with the setlist. I am really happy with this workflow.
 
Purplestrats said:
Depends how well the band has it's own mix dialed in I suppose, but if the rythm guitarist is going from a recto to a friedman to a 5153 to a herbie from song to song, the sound guy might struggle to dial in a good FOH mix. We are a 3 guitar band, so when our guitar tones finally sit well together we prefer not to mess with it too much.
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Yeah, with 3 guitars you wouldn't have a lot of breathing room.
 
Michielnijboer said:
When I had my AX8, I had a per song preset system (I play in a coverband as well). I’d use Setlistmaker on an iPad connected via Yamaha’s UD-BT01 and I used a Flic Bluetooth button to switch quickly to the next song / preset. I’d also have Fracpad running on the iPad.
When I got my FM3, I wanted to try another approach: much less presets, more generic so they can be used for multiple songs. Problem is: you end up needing to switch effects on/off and I don’t like having to switch to other banks on the FM3 to select scene 4-6 and 7-8 in the middle of a song. I miss the AX8’s footswitches... so now I’m thinking to either go back to a preset per song system or to add a MIDI controller to control effects. The only thing I haven’t figured out yet is how to use the FM3’s MIDI inputs to connect both an iPad and a MIDI controller. I actually just started a topic on that yesterday: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/connect-ipad-and-midi-controller.171487/
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If you didn't get the answer let me know. I use FracPad via MIDI and also an MC8 connected via MIDI.
 
I use hybrid: a set of generic presets/scenes that work for most songs, and some specialized for better tone matching where it's important for the song. Bandhelper selects the particular preset/scenes as a given song plays (playing against backing tracks), as well as some block bypasses in/out and even some small volume boosts/cuts to fit the particular song mix.

One concern I have (having so far played only 1 gig with the Axe!), which seems like it might be multiplied for the 'preset per song' approach: after a big firmware change like Cygnus, tweaking it all for 70 songs. Have others already been through that, and not a big deal? (Automation is always a double-edged sword)
 
Reaper said:
Like @Ventanaman I'm in a cover band with about 60 active songs so would prefer a per song preset set up. But pending the long time promised song / set list functionality to be implemented at the moment stick to a kitchen sink preset / preset template. As @Smittefar I run into the CPU maxing out issue so hope set / song list will be first after Cygnus.
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I don't really have a CPU issue, but my template has everything, so it is pushing the limits of CPU. But I never need it all for one song, so I just stay out by shunting 4-5 blocks before I start. The first one to go is the acoustic sim cab block. It is pretty CPU intensive, and I rarely need it.
 
I'm also a fan of generic presets that do most things, and then song specific presets very much by exception. This is mainly because I am a luddite, but not a technophobe, and somewhere in the back of my mind's eye are the couple of amps and a switching system full of effects pedals that I used to use before I was converted to a modelling amp. So occasionally, and very much by exception, I will be switching my ageing brain from a Marshall 1/2 stack and Vox AC30 behind my knees (in the imaginary sense), to a Princeton Reverb, Twin Reverb or Roland JC120.

Also playing in a (mainly) 90s covers band much of the time, and I get away with 5 presets this way, and generally 5 scenes in each preset, + a bit of effects selection mid song. We probably have less than 40 songs in the list that we actually play regularly, but the idea of turning that into around 40 presets, and who knows how many scenes, somehow fills me with horror. I tend to link the Amp, Drive, Reverb and Cab blocks via Global in most of those presets, because life is far too short for checking every preset and scene when dialling in after firmware updates.

It's either a lazy compromise, or I play better with something familiar, but I have honestly made do with one amp and one or 2 effects pedals for 3-set gigs in the relatively recent past. I still find the idea of all this being limitless a little intimidating, but it works and it sounds great, so I'll live with it. ;)

Liam
 
Smittefar said:
I have this in the midi ports of the AxeFX http://quicco.eu/products/index.html - Yamaha makes similar products.

All the rest is actually set up on the ipad inside the SetListMaker app. In the app I have an entry for each song (sometimes I also have song lyrics and chord charts in those entries), and each song is tied to a set of midi commands that will be sent out, when that song is selected. When I make setlists, I make a combination of songs entries, so when I select the song during the set, the ipad screen will show chords/lyrics and a midi command is sent to the axe bringing up the chosen preset.
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Thanks for the reply, I will give this a try. The apps Setlistmaker and Bandhelper are also promising and together with the midiport are the solution for me.
 
I keep a big pile of presets - one per song - and then just copy them into order in a bank when I’m prepping for a gig. Super easy for live use and one less thing to think about when switching between songs. The space is there, so might as well use it!
 
ZenRigs Man Kind the point of Band Helper or SetlisMaker same app Band Helper is yearly subscription for multiple players in a group. Program band helper to know where your presets are located and just do your set lists in that, drag and arrange very simple. Not saying your work flow isn't. I keep an iPhone on my mic stand with BH connected to the AFX bluetooth and just tap the song I want to play to switch to its preset. Also has nice band related useful features like scrolling lyrics for the singer, flashing tempo, notes as well as stuff for management stage layout funds tracking gig dates. Can be set up so everyone on stage has a phone or tablet one person can update the list for everyone live, change song so on. Save as many lists as you want. The developer does updates on par with Cliff. Now I will say it can be a head scratcher getting everything set up but once done it really is helpful.

Sorry always plugging for BandHelper as it has been a god send for me. Been using this since 2011 or whenever it came out as SetListMaker.
 
I pretty much stay on one preset all night. And don't sweat it. Some times I'll use a second preset if I'm feeling plucky. We play music other people write, in our style, with our sound.

I have a "kitchen sink" preset layout that holds a ton of global blocks in it. I'll put this layout down around an AMP/CAB pair. That way the core effects I like to use stay pretty constant, and I than I can experiment with different base AMP/CAB tones and change it up as the mood strikes me without being totally lost when it comes to how a preset functions.

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