Lemonoid Ultra - Got to know if I have one

[Deltones]

Guys, here's a small request. I've been wondering about my Ultra everytime I load somebody else's preset to find out my results are too different from the clips they post. I can understand some differences, accounting for playing style and guitar, but not to the extent I've experienced. Last case in point, I downloaded one of Mark's preset, recorded a short clip with it because it sounded way too different and posted it here and on another forum. Mark (samhill) heard the clip, and basically he said: "Strange". This is something I don't like to hear.

So here's a clip of just a 5150 amp block with all default values (passive tonestack though) and a cab block (stock Marshall V30, no mic). I played a slow run to let you hear how the notes ring.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8199809

Can you guys make yourself the same patch as above, play with it, and post your clip or report if what you get is similar to what you hear in my clip?

 

[godprobe]

Just a few things to keep in mind that could make the same patch sound very different (two that you already mentioned):
- playing style and pick
- guitar/pickups used
- firmware version the patch was created on and the original sample was recorded on
- any global settings
- any user cabs used in the patch?
- did the patch happen to use a global amp? (those, like user cabs, don't transfer in the patch)
- any post-processing
- equipment the audio goes through before reaching your ears (speakers, cables, interface and its converters, mics(?!), etc.)

But, to alleviate your worries, as far as I can tell... your Ultra sounds normal -- guitar might be a bit noisy though(?).
Here's a short corroborating clip using the 5150 and 4x12 V30 cab -- Variax 700 on a Les Paul bridge pickup model, no pick -- 44/16 PCM via Reaper to Lame VBR 192 -- signal path: Variax > Axe-Fx front > Axe-Fx XLR Out 1 > Switchblade GL > Fireface 800 > Reaper. The live playback through my speakers sounded closer to your clip than my mp3 does, wrt dynamics.
http://www.godprobe.com/temp/corroboclip.mp3

[edit: more details]

 

[chris]

what guitar and what pickups are being used? at the least we should know that!

 

[Deltones]

what guitar and what pickups are being used? at the least we should know that!

Indeed. Alder bodied Jackson with JB-4 in the bridge, Jazz in the neck. Clip was played with bridge pickup.

 

[Deltones]

Just a few things to keep in mind that could make the same patch sound very different (two that you already mentioned):
- playing style and pick
- guitar/pickups used
- firmware version the patch was created on and the original sample was recorded on
- any global settings
- any user cabs used in the patch?
- did the patch happen to use a global amp? (those, like user cabs, don't transfer in the patch)
- any post-processing
- equipment the audio goes through before reaching your ears (speakers, cables, interface and its converters, mics(?!), etc.)

But, to alleviate your worries, as far as I can tell... your Ultra sounds normal.
Here's a short corroborating clip using the 5150 and 4x12 V30 cab -- Variax 700 on a Les Paul model, no pick.
http://www.godprobe.com/temp/corroboclip.mp3

GP, listened to your clip. You're right, sounds pretty similar to what I get. Yours is darker but at least, we both are in the same ballpark. That's a relief.

As for Mark's patch, what he posted was geared for direct playback and the cab he used was a stock one, not a 3rd party IR. While his tone was awesome, mine was similar to a fizz zombie. Tried to kill it, but the fizz just wouldn't die.

 

[godprobe]

What are your input and output knobs set at?
I don't like to turn my output knob all the way up... not sure if it's my gear, but it gets a bit harsh when I do.
(Also, it's nice to be able to use it as a quickie volume control.)

 

[Deltones]

What are your input and output knobs set at?
I don't like to turn my output knob all the way up... not sure if it's my gear, but it gets a bit harsh when I do.
(Also, it's nice to be able to use it as a quickie volume control.)

Input1 is set at around 2 o'clock. My output1 is set around 9 o'clock. Signal is fed into a Firestudio interface and the level knob is set on it so that I track between -12db to -6db. There is no clipping going on either on the Ultra or the Firestudio or in Reaper.

 

[MarcoB]

I say you have to tweak, but basically: nothing wrong.

Regards,
Marco

 

[bonehead]

I do not like the sound of the clip posted. Sounds to flabby to me.I suggest reducing the gain on the amp and putting a drive pedal in front to clean up the distortion.
just my 2 cents,
Terry

 

[teejay]

How are your global settings compared to his (Mark)? For example, are you using the power amp defeat?

There may be slight differences in global settings that other peoples presets won't translate....

 

[javajunkie]

How are your global settings compared to his (Mark)? For example, are you using the power amp defeat?

There may be slight differences in global settings that other peoples presets won't translate....

I believe Mark stated that he uses quite a bit of global EQ. That could account for the difference.

 

[Dutch]

indeed so. Mark made some quite extensive use of the global EQs. They're on the forum somewhere. Twice, IIRC. Also he mixes his Youtubes using DI and a mic in front of his Randall 2x12. So don't worry if it's different.

There's a huge spread in patches from the net. From way bright to dull and muddy. Thankfully I find myself somewhat in the middle, so I guess I'm alright with my setup. For the rest I just declare all of them insane and hearing impaired and live blissfully in my ivory castle.

 

[Deltones]

I say you have to tweak, but basically: nothing wrong.

Regards,
Marco

Marco,

There was no tweak because it was just for demonstration and to make sure everybody who wanted to record a small clip for comparison had the same patch.

 

[Deltones]

I do not like the sound of the clip posted. Sounds to flabby to me.I suggest reducing the gain on the amp and putting a drive pedal in front to clean up the distortion.
just my 2 cents,
Terry

Bonehead, the clip was made with two blocks (amp and cab) with default values. It was not intended as a production patch but a base for comparison purpose. If it was flabby, then I guess that's the main caracteristics of a 5150 amp by default.

 

[Deltones]

How are your global settings compared to his (Mark)? For example, are you using the power amp defeat?

There may be slight differences in global settings that other peoples presets won't translate....

Yeah, I made the same adjustements he did before recording the other clip. Without them, it was even worse.

But the main thing is that I've got two guys here confirming that everything's as it should be with the clip I posted. That's what I wanted to know.

 

[widrace]

Deltones - I have a LP with the same PUP combo as you. Mark's patches were horrible here too. After applying the posted EQ fixes they were better, but not right - still too gainy.

Consistently, with almost all the user patches I try (like Mark's) with this guitar, the gain is over the top with red lights flashing everywhere. The fix for me is to cut about 10-15 db in the first block of the grid. Patches with noise gates start to work right too, along with compressors that operate as intended.

Yea...I could do this with the input knob, but to me it sounds better when leaving the knob around 2 o'clock and adjusting downstream. The other guitars here usually don't require a cut to work well with user patches, one of them being an EMG/DG20 Strat, which has a pretty healthy output.

Interested to see if we share a common problem and fix.

 

[Deltones]

Deltones - I have a LP with the same PUP combo as you. Mark's patches were horrible here too. After applying the posted EQ fixes they were better, but not right - still too gainy.

Consistently, with almost all the user patches I try (like Mark's) with this guitar, the gain is over the top with red lights flashing everywhere. The fix for me is to cut about 10-15 db in the first block of the grid. Patches with noise gates start to work right too, along with compressors that operate as intended.

Yea...I could do this with the input knob, but to me it sounds better when leaving the knob around 2 o'clock and adjusting downstream. The other guitars here usually don't require a cut to work well with user patches, one of them being an EMG/DG20 Strat, which has a pretty healthy output.

Interested to see if we share a common problem and fix.

I didn't have any problem with Mark's patch level. In fact, I was pretty amazed at how much he removes from the level knobs (-10db in amp block, -19db cab block). But you're right, before I made the global EQ adjustements, the patch was unuseable, which Mark warned about. With global EQ, sounded better, but I have the same experience you have: Very gainy, and in my case, very fizzy (probably because of brighter wood than your guitar).

However, we cannot deny that Mark's tone on Bark at the Moon is great. That's why I asked in the first place because his patch sounded so good and the difference for me was way too big.

 

[Mark Day]

How are your global settings compared to his (Mark)? For example, are you using the power amp defeat?

There may be slight differences in global settings that other peoples presets won't translate....

I believe Mark stated that he uses quite a bit of global EQ. That could account for the difference.

I think he may be using this patch which I setup based on the BATM preset but direct only with a flat Global EQ on OUT 1. I think I removed the 2nd gate as well so Standard users could check it out.

I think a lot could do with the fact that I use crazy hot pickups AND an EMG SPC tone(cranked) for my distorted tones. It may also have to do with the way I hit the strings...over the years I have adapted my playing style with insane amounts of gain and bottom end (not everyone's cup of tea).

I know that even when I use a guitar with passive pickups in my OD100 rig..it just doesn't sound the same, the bottom is flubby and horrible and sounds like a mess with the way I play...I have to really fight with the strings to get it to be tight..it's doable but it becomes a real physical chore...if that makes sense.

Anyway here is the direct patch designed with a flat Global EQ....I will do a short clip after, perhaps someone else can too?

Ok here is the preset without the 2nd Gate and the midi CC's are gone, also you can keep your Global OUT 1 EQ flat. This patch is designed for direct ONLY use OUT1. I did not tweak this for OUT 2 to SLA 2/Guitar cabs.


http://files.me.com/samhillband/d0zqik

Mark

 

[Deltones]

It may also have to do with the way I hit the strings...over the years I have adapted my playing style with insane amounts of gain and bottom end (not everyone's cup of tea).

I know that even when I use a guitar with passive pickups in my OD100 rig..it just doesn't sound the same, the bottom is flubby and horrible and sounds like a mess with the way I play...I have to really fight with the strings to get it to be tight..it's doable but it becomes a real physical chore...if that makes sense.

Mark

You know, the part about about the way you're hitting the strings is very interesting. I was always wondering why I always seemed to get the "unk" part but the never the "ch" part in a palm-muted "chunk-chunk" run with high-gain presets. And when I focused on how I was hitting the strings, I realized that I'm hitting them with the pick straight on, no angle. When I angled my pick just a little, there it was, that little pick friction against the string that created the missing "ch". I'm not used to play with an angle in my pick, and like you say, I've got to fight with the strings to make them sound tight. Maybe that's something to account for in the big disparity between presets people post here, and the way individual playing style make them sound.

 

[rickgk]

I think the hot pickups and the EMG SPC in marks guitars may be the big factor here,
i couldn't get marks patches to sound right on my ultra even after copying his global EQ settings,
with my JB loaded guitars it sounded too woofy on the lows and too thin on the highs, i had to take out lows and highs and boost the mid frequencies quite a bit to get my setup sounding more like marks clips, which from my understanding is exactly what the SPC control does (boost mids and roll off highs), the hot output of the pickups would be tightening the bottom end response also.
So maybe it's worth trying marks patches with similar pickups, or the other option would be rolling off the lows and highs & boosting the mids with a graphic eq block in an upside down smile curve, it'll get you there.