Latency reporting to DAW

This is covered in the recording guide, but if sample rate is an issue for anyone, spdif won’t help unless you’re using one of the rare audio interfaces capable of doing sample rate conversion. A better solution is to use a DAW that is capable of doing conversion when recording, like Logic. If you’re already using such a DAW, sample rate is a non issue.
 
Much thanks to @GlennO and @AlbertA for their persistence and detailed research.
I hope these issues eventually get settled for real.

Do I understand rightly that SPDIF on Fractal devices oesn't have any of these issues?
That‘s right. But I wouldn’t recommend using spdif just to avoid this problem since that introduces other complications. Setting the compensatoon preference in the DAW is a better way to deal with this for most people.
 
That‘s right. But I wouldn’t recommend using spdif just to avoid this problem since that introduces other complications. Setting the compensatoon preference in the DAW is a better way to deal with this for most people.
What complications do you find using SPDIF? Its been perfect here from day 1.
 
I was wondering the same thing. Since I moved to a different audio interface and connected the AF3 with SPDIF I've had no issues.
I wish fractal the best in hunting down these bugs and I know a lot of people use the Fractal successfully as an interface but this was one of the reasons I went with a separate interface altogether. I want my modeler to do modeling and do it well and thats it. Once you get into even intermediate levels of recording, you'll outgrow the IO anyway. Im sure its great for the youtube jam along or basic garage band tracking. If the AxeFX were ever marketed as a serious 4 or 8 pre, light pipe capable interface, I'd take another look but it would really need to be solid to get me away from UA.
Personally, I'd rather pay less for no interface capability or pay the same for some enhanced functionality elsewhere but I understand people enjoy the interface ability, too. I think a separate product (or firmware maybe) for the pro studios or more advanced home studios would be nice.
 
What complications do you find using SPDIF? Its been perfect here from day 1.
To begin with, the obvious complication is you need to add an audio interface to your rig :). In addition, you lose input channels when you use spdif. USB has 4 pairs of outs, spdif only 1. So digitally recording DI/Dry/Wet is a lot simpler with USB. Also, you have to calibrate the input gain when using spdif for best signal to noise ratio and apply a matching decrease in the Axe-FX. See the instructions for configuration #5 for details. That compensation is automatically done for you in the Axe-FX, but you have to do it yourself when using spdif.

These are not big complications, but neither is setting the offset preference in your DAW. My point is: there are good reasons for using spdif (for example adding an input for a microphone when recording), but avoiding the latency compensation problem is not one of them.
 
These are not big complications, but neither is setting the offset preference in your DAW. My point is: there are good reasons for using spdif (for example adding an input for a microphone when recording), but avoiding the latency compensation problem is not one of them.
SPDIF to my audio interface does the job for me, at least for what I need to do right now. And I don't have to fiddle around with setting offsets every time I start working on a project. I really wish they would fix the issue though.
 
SPDIF to my audio interface does the job for me, at least for what I need to do right now. And I don't have to fiddle around with setting offsets every time I start working on a project. I really wish they would fix the issue though.
There shouldn't be any need to adjust anything per-project. I set it once a couple of years ago and haven't touched it since. But yes, this kind of bug should be fixed.
 
It's not always the same amount, it fluctuates. As per discussions on this old thread I started last year:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/reamping-slightly-out-of-sync.177482/page-2
You're seeing a variation of 60 samples, or a little over a msec? Sorry, haven't seen that myself. I'll get a variation of a dozen samples or so, which is to be expected with outboard gear.

Again, my point is: "Setting the compensation preference in the DAW is a better way to deal with this for most people.". I'm sure there are some people for whom it works better to use spdif. But I'd suggest first try adjusting the DAW preference. If that works for you, you're golden and there's no need to worry about integrating spdif into your rig or about whether this bug has been fixed yet.
 
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Interesting. I don't know how, when or why this happened exactly but the latency issue appears to have gone away. I upgraded to Cubase 12 last week, I also installed the latest USB driver for the Axe Fx as well as the new FW. Even if I change the latency compensation manually in the daw the audio ends up in the right spot. Interesting but a welcome surprise!
 
Interesting. I don't know how, when or why this happened exactly but the latency issue appears to have gone away. I upgraded to Cubase 12 last week, I also installed the latest USB driver for the Axe Fx as well as the new FW. Even if I change the latency compensation manually in the daw the audio ends up in the right spot. Interesting but a welcome surprise!
Well, yes, if you set the manual compensation in Cubase, it will align properly. The bug is that it doesn't align unless you do that. In any case, the USB firmware and USB driver were last updated in 2021 (although the USB firmware wasn't announced until Feb 2022), so nothing has been changed since last year.

See these threads for details:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...rding-due-to-usb-latency-compensation.181686/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/latency-compensation-measurement.177851/
 
Well, yes, if you set the manual compensation in Cubase, it will align properly. The bug is that it doesn't align unless you do that. In any case, the USB firmware and USB drive were last updated in 2021 (although the USB firmware wasn't announced until Feb 2022), so nothing has been changed since last year.

See these threads for details:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...rding-due-to-usb-latency-compensation.181686/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/latency-compensation-measurement.177851/

I'm well aware of the issue as I experienced it too. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not having this issue anymore since recently. Whether I turn the manual compensation off or not.
 
What complications do you find using SPDIF? Its been perfect here from day 1.
I've been using SPDIF with my Apollo, then it died. I got an Antelope Audio interface and used SPDIF successfully, but it had driver issues so I replaced it with a Presonus 1810C. SPDIF is janky wirth it, for some reason. I'll get warbles, doesn't matter what the buffer is set at in Logic. So now I use USB but I can't set it to 32 samples. 64 works fine tho. But I'd rather use SPDIF and 32 samples. Using an M1 Mac Mini.
 
I've been using SPDIF with my Apollo, then it died. I got an Antelope Audio interface and used SPDIF successfully, but it had driver issues so I replaced it with a Presonus 1810C. SPDIF is janky wirth it, for some reason. I'll get warbles, doesn't matter what the buffer is set at in Logic. So now I use USB but I can't set it to 32 samples. 64 works fine tho. But I'd rather use SPDIF and 32 samples. Using an M1 Mac Mini.
Wow sorry to hear. Hate to blame the cable but could it be? Im on windows and an Apollo X8, antelope drivers are quirky on a good day. Open a support ticket, try and record the anomalies too.
 
I'm well aware of the issue as I experienced it too. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not having this issue anymore since recently. Whether I turn the manual compensation off or not.
I'm not seeing any change here. That's not surprising since, as I mentioned above, there haven't been any changes to the driver or usb firmware since last year. Note that if you follow the buffer size workaround instructions in the link I posted above, it will work without needing the manual compensation in your DAW, so it could be you're doing that. Otherwise, without knowing the details of what you're doing, it's hard to say what's going on. What are you getting for reported and actual latency in RTL Utility?
 
I've been using SPDIF with my Apollo, then it died. I got an Antelope Audio interface and used SPDIF successfully, but it had driver issues so I replaced it with a Presonus 1810C. SPDIF is janky wirth it, for some reason. I'll get warbles, doesn't matter what the buffer is set at in Logic. So now I use USB but I can't set it to 32 samples. 64 works fine tho. But I'd rather use SPDIF and 32 samples. Using an M1 Mac Mini.
Just interested to know why you need the buffer size so low?i can only assume you are monitoring back by the DAW + using Vst plugins to monitor while recording.

I monitoring my recording by the hardware and use 128 samples
 
Just interested to know why you need the buffer size so low?i can only assume you are monitoring back by the DAW + using Vst plugins to monitor while recording.

I monitoring my recording by the hardware and use 128 samples
I just tend to do everythng from within Logic. I could monitor from the Presonus mixer, but that still doesn't get rid of the warble when I use SPDIF.
 
I just installed Studio One and measuring the FM3 there gives me totally different results than doing the same in Bitwig. In Bitwig, I need to compensate by 793 samples, in Studio One by 592, which is really weird. I would have expected the values to be roughly the same.

I hope FAS will fix latency reporting soon.
 
I hope FAS will fix latency reporting soon.

This week is the four year anniversary of this problem being reported. As you mention, there are a couple of workarounds (buffer size adjustment and manual compensation) and I would suggest to anyone else looking for a solution: it's probably best to use those.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/anyone-having-any-latency-issues-with-usb.137958/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...rding-due-to-usb-latency-compensation.181686/
 
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