Bug? Knob-set Global Tempos lost on patch change

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Dr. Dipwad

Experienced
I'm currently on firmware 10.something (what was shipped with my unit 2 months ago); I'm planning to upgrade to 11 as soon as I learn how to do the upgrades.

When I press the Tempo button, I see the current tempo which I produced by tapping a button on my MIDI footcontroller. (It's a actually a Digitech GSP-1101 with a Control 2 footcontroller, which is sending its tap-tempo signals out on a CC.)

Scenario: While playing a song, I send tap-tempo CC messages which the tempo at 100.

But, then the band starts a new song which I know we always play at exactly 115, which starts off using the same program I'm already on.

So I don't change programs; I just reach over to the front panel and use the knob to adjust the tempo shown on the screen to exactly 115. I play a note, and the timed eighth-note echoes sound perfectly synched with 115. So far so good.

The second song starts (at 115). All my timed echoes are in synch.

Now the song's chorus comes, and it's time for me to change programs. I press a program-change button on my footcontroller. The program changes.

Now I play some notes and...whoa, what's wrong with my timed echoes? They're too slow!

I check the tempo readout on the front panel and...it's showing 100 again! Why'd it go back?

Looking at both programs, I see both have "Tempo To Use" set to global, not program. So that's not the problem. And the second program didn't have a "internal program tempo" of 100 anyway. (When I first created it, it was for a song we play at 78. So that's not where this tempo of 100 came from; if it had been changing to program tempo, it would have gone to 78, not 100.)

Thinking it over, it seems to me that when I tap the tempo, it's setting both the global tempo and the "system tempo" currently being used to time echoes. But, when I adjust the knob (up to 115), I guess I'm only changing the "system tempo" and the global tempo is remaining at 100 (the last tempo I tapped). That's why, when I change programs, the global tempo is captured by the new program, but the system tempo is lost.

1. Has anyone else observed this?

2. Is this intentional for some reason I can't fathom, or is it a known bug?

3. Is it something fixed in Firmware 11, so that as soon as I upgrade firmware, I won't have to worry about it any more?

Thanks.
 
That's not happening here with FW 11.03.

There still is one thing about the tempo page that might be confusing, and I don't know if this is a bug. After switching to the new preset in your example, the tempo will be 115 and the onscreen knob position will reflect this, but the value shown above will say 78 BPM. If you adjust tempo via wheel it will jump to 77 or 79, not 114 or 116.
 
Hmm, thanks for the reply Bakerman.

I think I'll have to go back and make sure I wasn't misinterpreting the inaccurate NUMBER (showing 78 BPM on the screen when 115 is what you hear with your ears and what you see with the onscreen knob) as an inaccurate NUMBER AND SOUND (showing 78 BPM on the screen AND TIMING THE ECHOES AT 78, when 115 is what's indicated by the onscreen knob). Maybe, in the heat of the moment (cue Asia song) on stage seeing the wrong number confused me as to what I was really hearing. (Ah. Rush. That's better than Asia: "Living on a lighted stage approaches the unreal...!")

Still, I would say this is a real bug, until/unless someone can make a case that...

(a.) it's okay that the onscreen number is telling you you're synching to 78 when you're not; and,
(b.) it's okay that minor knob adjustments at that point will actually move you to a tempo of 79, jumping suddenly from 115, when perhaps you wanted to adjust from 115 to 116.

I don't see how that's not a bug.
 
UPDATE:

I have now installed the latest firmware (v. 11.03), and this bug remains.

I have all my programs set to sync to Global Tempo;

I tap a tempo, and my echoes sync just fine;

Then I change programs, and the echoes are still in sync on the new program...but when I press Tempo the tempo being shown is totally wrong; it isn't the current Global Tempo at all but some other, unrelated number. And this really stinks if my next song is a known, exact tempo which is a hair slower (or faster) than the previous tapped tempo, because when I reach over to the knob to set the precise tempo, the knob starts adjusting from the unrelated number being shown (rather than from the real Global Tempo I'm currently synched to). This means that after one turn of the knob, I'm suddenly way off and have to adjust a lot, even though the two songs' tempos only varied slightly.

To reiterate my earlier example:

Song #1's tempo varies, but it ends at 115;

Song #2's tempo does not vary, and is set at precisely 112.

During the performance of Song #1, I use Tap Tempo to keep my echoes in time with the band as the tempo varies, and when Song #1 ends, I'm at tempo 115.

I change programs to get ready for Song #2, then hit the Tempo button to set the tempo to 112. But when I look at the tempo number being shown, it isn't 115 (even though that's the Global Tempo I'm hearing in my echoes). It's 78, or some other number. Confused, I thunk the guitar strings lightly, and sure enough, I'm hearing echoes at 115. So, thinking I'm really at 115 (no matter what the display says) I turn the knob DOWN a bit, intending to reduce the Global Tempo from 115 to 112. Instead, the number goes down from 78 to 75...and suddenly, the echoes I'm hearing are way too slow: My Global Tempo is now ACTUALLY at 75, and I have to crank the knob UP now, a long ways, to set it at 112.

If there's something I don't understand, I wish someone would explain it to me.

If the tempo number I'm seeing is not even supposed to be the Global Tempo, but is actually some other tempo (e.g. the program tempo), then I sure wish it was clearly labeled so I'd know that was what it was. But I can't see why on earth it'd be showing the program tempo when my program is, itself, supposed to be synching with the Global Tempo. I think the screen should always show the same tempo that my ears are hearing.

(Or, if there's a reason to show the other tempo, then the display should show BOTH tempos, clearly labeled as to which is which, and the knob should adjust the number which matches what your ears are hearing, not that other irrelevant number.)

Don't get me wrong: Axe FX 2 is a wonderful box and I'm having a blast! But I use timed echoes a lot, so this is a problem that constantly annoys.
 
So, I've reported this bug.

What happens now? I mean, does the thread just sit there and I should assume that some Fractal firmware coder is working on it? Or does one get an official acknowledgment at some point? Something like, "Okay, we officially acknowledge this is a bug; we don't know quite when we'll get to it but we hope that it'll be fixed in some future firmware version."

Or does the lack of response indicate that no one else sees the same behavior? Or that they do see the same behavior, but consider it a feature rather than a bug?

(Not trying to be smart-alecky. I've been "tech support" before; I commiserate. I'm just not sure what I should expect, now that I reported this.)
 
Cliff, the owner and developer readers this section. He will most likely review it. Sometimes he comments other times not.
 
i'm just thankful you took the time to explain the problem clearly and thoroughly. it's very easy to see the problem and probably easier to develop a solution rather than jumping through hoops to get information :)

thanks.
 
1. In preset A set "tempo to use" to "global".

2. Set the tempo to anything, let's say 40 BPM, then save the preset.

3. Switch to preset B, go to the tempo menu and set the tempo to something different, like 220 BPM.

4. Switch to preset A and go to the tempo menu. Everything (tempo-based items, tempo LED) will be working as expected at the latest global tempo (220 BPM), the knob will appear at the 220 position, but the listed tempo will be 40 BPM.

ic0y.jpg


One click of the wheel will result in the tempo jumping to 39 or 41 BPM, rather than 219 or 221 like you might expect.
 
Would it be possible to have the listed tempo be the current tempo? That seems more useful than always seeing the preset tempo, which could still be viewed by switching "tempo to use" back to "preset". And ideally when set to global, adjusting tempo would increment from the global (current) tempo, not jump to the preset tempo.
 
Bakerman said:
Would it be possible to have the listed tempo be the current tempo? That seems more useful than always seeing the preset tempo, which could still be viewed by switching "tempo to use" back to "preset". And ideally when set to global, adjusting tempo would increment from the global (current) tempo, not jump to the preset tempo.
Click to expand...

This would be great if possible.
 
Rex said:
I think it would be even better to display both tempos' values.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this.

The ideal look for this screen would be something like:

. . . GLOBAL TEMPO . . . . . . . . . PRESET TEMPO . . .
. . . . . *in use*

. KNOB . . . KNOB . . . KNOB . . . KNOB

That is, both tempos are displayed up at top, instead of just one of them; and, whichever one is currently being used by the loaded program is indicated by the words "in use"; and then the row of knobs at the bottom.

This would be a GREAT feature enhancement.
 
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