Kinda freaking out a little...

[BBN]

If you open your excel sheet with another program, there might be differences.
Or if Excel had a bug in it, it could open the program with some difference...
This is just blind speculation, of course.

You can't open an Axe FX file with 'another program'.


Not trying to be a pain here dude....but the 'blind speculation' just adds more swirl.

 

[yek]

It is weird indeed.
I had a suspicion that the Axe sounds different on different Axes because of installation errors or something for quite a while now... But I can't confirm it. People say "They can't be different, because it's code", "It's the settings" or "He thinks it's worse because oh his taste" but I am a bit suspicious of those claims.

The thread yek made can help figuring this out, but only if he shared DI's. Then again, unlikely, but how could we be sure his Axe sounds right?

Note: The new firmware has no "Reset all amps" option?...

Speculation is getting out of hand...

I've experienced this "bad firmware install" phenomenon once. In 6 years time. And I installed new firmware hundreds of times, if not more.

It was very obvious from the start that something wasn't right. Everything sounded way "off" and thin.

I tried everything such as resetting the system params, resetting blocks, re-selecting amp types, turning global modeling parameters off and on again, disconnecting the foot controller, etc.

Nothing solved it, except for: re-installing the firmware.

I knew what I was doing when it happened. Except for one thing: I should not have re-installed the firmware and should have called FAS Support. Because there might be a way for FAS to create an image of the Axe-Fx's state, which can help Cliff find the cause.

And that's my suggestion to those to whom it happens: "freeze" the Axe-Fx, and call Support.

Regarding my reference clips: there's no need for DI files, really. It's not necessary to have identical sounds.
Use your guitar with single coils or humbuckers, follow the guidelines in the thread, and if it gets anywhere close to the recorded tones, you're set and you don't have to worry.

In the end: if it's some kind of a bug, it's the easiest bug to work around, because you just have to install the firmware again and it's solved. A matter of minutes really.

 

[tommyco10]

Quantum sounded really odd to me until I realised that poweramp modelling had somehow turned itself off in the global menu during the update process... After I re-enabled it, it sounded great!

 

[vinnieRice]

That's like saying "The calculated values in my Microsoft Excel spreadsheet are different based on what computer I open it on".

In order for it to sound different, something else in the chain is different.

Some of us will remember a time when that was actually true! (Intel v. Motorola processors)

 

[pitta]

I totally forgot that thread.

That was a really neat idea, but it has one important variable... The guitar and the player (the technique).
It would be awesome to have just a couple of DI Tracks, one for clean stuff and one for distortion to get better results.

Someone wondering if his Axe sound as it should, could grab the DI, reamp it following your procedure (System reset, clean preset, etc...) and check with somebody else if it sounds the same.
It doesn't matter if it sounds good or bad (the amp and cab are default). What matters is if it sound the same.

If you fear issues during fw update, just record your own DI track together with the current fw replication. You can then compare with your ears on your system what the update does.

 

[Fl7x]

If you fear issues during fw update, just record your own DI track together with the current fw replication. You can then compare with your ears on your system what the update does.

Not my case... At least for now.
And you didn't got it.
The DI track is not to compare the changes between diferent firmwares when you update. Is to know if your current firmware sounds as it should, comparing it to another one with the same firmware.

 

[admgloval]

Here's another example of user error! Check your battery if you have active pickups. I always remember to unplug my guitar so never expected the battery to run out and cause sound issues. I've literally had a single battery last years, every time I would check it, it would be fine so kind of just quit checking it. I installed Quantum a few days ago and was kind of unimpressed with it like alot of others. I didn't seem to have as much definition with my presets and not as much gain. Ended up screwing up my presets by adding tons more gain and got noise and other issues. Then last night after playing a clean preset and noticing that the noise gate seemed to be cutting in alot sooner than it should, I had the brilliant idea to check the battery and sure enough, it was dead as a doornail. Changed it out and BOOM, everything sounds beautiful again! Moral of the story, your probably doing something wrong or there's a user issue going on!

 

[jrh_67]

As AlbertA said the possibility of a corrupted install is virtually zero. There are multiple CRC checks and checksums, etc., etc., throughout the process. The process does not only overwrite certain parts of the firmware as someone speculated. The entire memory is erased and new firmware is installed. Finally the newly installed firmware is compared to the downloaded firmware to make sure that the installation was successful. The odds of the firmware being "wrong" are literally one in a billion.

So if something sounds wrong then it's either system settings and I would recommend doing a System Reset, some other external factor (bad cable) or your ears are just off that day.

Some days I plug in and things just don't sound right. I then hook up a reference amp and the reference amp sounds identical. So I know it's my ears. Come back the next day and everything sounds glorious. For example I plugged in yesterday and just went "wow, this sounds awesome". Quantum is really good and in many cases sounds better than the actual amps.

I'm going to have to agree here!
After installing the Quantum update I thought something sounded off and my "pick attack" seemed to sound funny.

I pulled out my trusty 5153 head and hooked it up and it was the same... actually the Axe sounded "Better" so unplugged the head, back in the closet it went...lol

It's funny how your brain (and ears) will play tricks on you....

Glad I had the reference amp to ease my mind....lol

 

[Keg8605]

I'm going to have to agree here!
After installing the Quantum update I thought something sounded off and my "pick attack" seemed to sound funny.

I pulled out my trusty 5153 head and hooked it up and it was the same... actually the Axe sounded "Better" so unplugged the head, back in the closet it went...lol

It's funny how your brain (and ears) will play tricks on you....

Glad I had the reference amp to ease my mind....lol

I agree, I wouldn't mind having a reference amp or two just to have and play. Keeps your ears in check like you say too.

 

[Bodde]

Haha... I didn't said nothing

What scares people is not the sound issues. Is not knowing if they have sound issues... The uncertainty.
After a update you hear something odd... Not totally wrong, just different and you start thinking if it's part of the "new sound" of the firmware or something went wrong and you should reload... But how to know it for sure? You reload the firmware 3 times and still there... Then what you hear is normal? or maybe in the fourth reload will sound different?

That's what is driving nuts some people. Not knowing if what they hear it's how it should sound.

Yes exactly! This topic doesn't make me less scared or uncertain to update. Guess I have read to many posts about bad installs.
This topic only made me more confused.

 

[Eanna]

I'm going to have to agree here!
After installing the Quantum update I thought something sounded off... I pulled out my trusty 5153 head and hooked it up and it was the same... actually the Axe sounded "Better" so unplugged the head, back in the closet it went...lol
It's funny how your brain (and ears) will play tricks on you....

This is actually a very good point, and possibly explains some of the diverse and often conflicting opinions on the forum!

So, if the AxeFX is your only point of reference for guitar tone (and you have found a FW that you are totally satisfied with), then I guess it's reasonable to say that every other FW upgrade before or after it essentially takes you farther away from what it is that you like. This might explain why someone would want to go from Quantum back to say FW18.x - or whatever.

If on the other hand, your reference for tone is a real amp(s), then I think it's fair to suggest that each new FW update seems to be taking us closer to the real thing? As such, FW updates will almost always get a favorable response from those in this second camp.

(This is just a 2c general observation and not intended to be an assumption on which camp the OP falls into...)

 

[bryguy]

I wanted to follow-up and state that system reset and firmware reload did not work for me. I gigged with it Friday night and feedback from audience and band members was that something was off. My guitar tone is never a concern with anyone and the axefx gets great compliments. I will roll back to 19 and will have to diagnose it later as I have an important opening slot on Thursday.

Btw, I don't like the system reset option to debug things. Too many things to remember for me to change back, that are not default settings.. I.e. Scene revert, control channel settings, etc. I'm not sure if you can reload a system parameter backup from an older firmware into a new firmware profile, perhaps that could save me some frustration on that piece.

I agree with an earlier post that maybe the amp simulations I use (Friedman BE and HBE) are closer to the real amps in quantum vs 19 and I have to start from scratch to understand how to work with them.

I do know that my ears are not off as i have multiple statements from people who hear me on a regular basis that it was a step back from my guitar tone they normally hear.

 

[strat714]

Lots of ones and zeros downloaded through miles and miles of cable and lightpipe. Lots of ones and zeros traveling through a USB cable at warp speed and each and every one and zero has to be perfectly aligned and timed. What could possibly go wrong? We take this amazing technology for granted sometimes.

 

[jesussaddle]

I'm going to guess here, and probably I'm totally wrong:

I think that the firmware update does not "wipe" the current firmware in the axe before updating... It overwrites the stuff that has changed and adds the new stuff. So for some reason something that should be overwritten it doesn't or it does but in a "glitchy" way. The second (or third or whatever) time you try to update again, it finally overwrites the stuff the way it should and everything start to sound as it should.

Something like that would explain why when you reinstall the firmware it goes back to normal behaviour.

Again, I'm totally guessing here.

Wow, if you are correct that's interesting. My FW's have installed much faster since awhile back, but I always assume if a programmer writes firmware code it needs to "wipe" and complete a fresh load. (Not the slang meaning of "fresh load" BTW. )

 

[Fl7x]

Wow, if you are correct that's interesting. My FW's have installed much faster since awhile back, but I always assume if a programmer writes firmware code it needs to "wipe" and complete a fresh load. (Not the slang meaning of "fresh load" BTW. )

I'm not.

As AlbertA said the possibility of a corrupted install is virtually zero. There are multiple CRC checks and checksums, etc., etc., throughout the process. The process does not only overwrite certain parts of the firmware as someone speculated. The entire memory is erased and new firmware is installed. Finally the newly installed firmware is compared to the downloaded firmware to make sure that the installation was successful. The odds of the firmware being "wrong" are literally one in a billion.

 

[jesussaddle]

Here's another example of user error! Check your battery if you have active pickups. I always remember to unplug my guitar so never expected the battery to run out and cause sound issues. I've literally had a single battery last years, every time I would check it, it would be fine so kind of just quit checking it. I installed Quantum a few days ago and was kind of unimpressed with it like alot of others. I didn't seem to have as much definition with my presets and not as much gain. Ended up screwing up my presets by adding tons more gain and got noise and other issues. Then last night after playing a clean preset and noticing that the noise gate seemed to be cutting in alot sooner than it should, I had the brilliant idea to check the battery and sure enough, it was dead as a doornail. Changed it out and BOOM, everything sounds beautiful again! Moral of the story, your probably doing something wrong or there's a user issue going on!

I have noticed that its my non-active pickups (Fred's) that basically require newer strings due to their output curve. If I play axe fx presets with strings that have lost their brightness, lead tones sound bad because I'm hearing more upper harmonic content, and creating presets around that This content is pristine only for about 10 hours of string life and then gradually degrades (IMHO). It all depends on so many factors; Simeon has fantastic tones. Maybe he has precisely fine tuned them with earlier FW,so like the post above, each FW takes us "away" from our last success; also pickup batteries, strings, pint of reference in various other ways. I would really like to know if the FW's sometimes install incorrectly. It seems odd that they would pass the checks, but I can't imagine the load of programming tasks that are being handled by so few people. But I guess as has been said, this is not the case. And I have always thought it unlikely.

 

[FractalAudio]

Lots of ones and zeros downloaded through miles and miles of cable and lightpipe. Lots of ones and zeros traveling through a USB cable at warp speed and each and every one and zero has to be perfectly aligned and timed. What could possibly go wrong? We take this amazing technology for granted sometimes.

In fact they don't have to be perfect. Errors are expected. That's why there are error-correcting codes, CRC checks, retries, etc., etc., etc. Information theory is built on the premise that errors will occur. Transmission systems are designed to correct errors if possible and, if not, initiate a retransmission.

 

[sam]

In fact they don't have to be perfect. Errors are expected. That's why there are error-correcting codes, CRC checks, retries, etc., etc., etc. Information theory is built on the premise that errors will occur. Transmission systems are designed to correct errors if possible and, if not, initiate a retransmission.

True. All of that leads to complex systems built upon complex systems, built upon complex systems... I believe this is why there are bugs in every software product of any decent size. It's amazing the way technology has scaled up and what is possible, but the system is quite complex when you look at all of these layers.

Anyway, as a former database and web application programmer that's my impression at least. I'm continually impressed by how rock solid and relatively bug-free the FAS firmware updates have been and continue to be. Really and truly impressed. You do a fantastic job Cliff. Hats off.

 

[KittyForHire]

I'm continually impressed by how rock solid and relatively bug-free the FAS firmware updates have been and continue to be. Really and truly impressed. You do a fantastic job Cliff. Hats off.

Now there's something I agree on. And not to mention how all this goodness is packed into a file that's just a couple Megabytes in size. Good things do indeed come in small packages

 

[Zwiebelchen]

the weak link could be the transfer. the axe verifies the file it receives, but only internally. it just checks what it's installed against what it received. if what it received is corrupted, then it can't possibly know that. if the file downloads from fractal's servers ok, then the problem must be in the transfer from the computer to the axe. but then resetting system params, or resetting the amps wouldn't make any difference. it's gremlins, i tell you...gremlins...

Have you checked your cab sims?
I recall some cabs getting replaced and/or shifting save locations in Quantum.