Just about had it

[flyingfadr]

Sometimes it is overkill... depends on the song and on the amount of gain used...

Maybe you could share the preset and we could tweak it... O=-)

 

[webe123]

But which tube amp ? Starts off the path of going from amp model to amp model, then back to the same amp model but with some mods, swapped tubes, different speaker cabinet, various drive pedals in front, changing from wireless back to cable, changing brand of cable

etc etc

Its not like you buy any old tube amp and "bingo", perfect tone in your head

The tube amp he needs depends on what sound he is looking for.

There are some folks who will only be happy with a tube amp sound.....

but as far as the quest....yes it will be the same thing as going from IR to IR you would just be going from tube amp to tube amp.

Still it is easier for some to dial in a sound with a regular amp as opposed to a digital amp.

But he seems like he is about to give up on the axe fx ANYWAY (read his title) so why not go tube?

 

[Tex Axe]

Do not give up it is here keep chasing that rabbit

I cant explain why i just know ok ?

been at this for a few years.
Its here....

 

[JJunkie]

But anyway, I took the admin's advice and played with the Delay and proximity parameters on the cab. I didn't exactly find what I was looking for HOWEVER I did find this

Well the admin was talking about phasing effects, and using 2 mics, so it sounds to me like he was suggesting for you to use 2 cab blocks (with same cab but different mics), and adjust delay settings in one of them?? Keep both cabs panned centre

 

[JJunkie]

from a quick calc it would have to be a very small amount of delay, less than half a millisecond?!?

 

[BillyZeppa]

from a quick calc it would have to be a very small amount of delay, less than half a millisecond?!?

Imagine you are micing a cab with a grill mic plus a 'room' mic a few feet out front - at 1ms. per foot away. so one foot per ms.

 

[apescaleconflict]

Whoever tells me Im not ready to mix albums doesn't know me. And besides, I'm mixing MY album. Not someone else's. So for MY stuff, I've been more than ready for the past few years now. I understand what you're saying (and I know you were in a rush at work) but that's kind of irrelevant here.

No, i don't know you, if you are so confident what's the problem? Just recognized a lot same issues that i've had there and still have. Somewhat tried to throw a penny on the pool by saying that's normal and don't be so hard on yourself. Allthough, that's still the thing that drives us forward, anyway, didn't want to mess you up.

 

[JJunkie]

righto. I was assuming the mics were just a few inches apart. It makes sense, because I tried getting a very short delay using flanger block, and I was getting some pretty f'd up tone.

 

[Soultrash]

i've read your OP and i am not really sure what the actual problem is.
when listening to guitars, most of the time these are in a mix with bass, drums, vocals, maybe even keys,
so basically you are hearing a complete unity. being aware of that i think that it is pretty much impossible to
create a single guitar sound that has the "tone" of a complete mix. so maybe the thing that you are missing
may not even be a part of the guitar tone, it could be the way how the guitar interacts with the bass, or even the bassdrum.
it can be also the particular riff or playing style out of ehich this particular tone you are looking for results.

it's a "head thing" imho, for me it's really hard to settle for one special sound, i also often do not have a concrete image of the sound i am looking for,
so basically i just stick to the closest one that makes me think, oh yeah this sounds killer. your sounds are not bad, you just have to "accept" them

 

[apescaleconflict]

it's a "head thing" imho, for me it's really hard to settle for one special sound, i also often do not have a concrete image of the sound i am looking for,
so basically i just stick to the closest one that makes me think, oh yeah this sounds killer. your sounds are not bad, you just have to "accept" them

This! Excactly what im after... But i think he already knows a certain tone that he's after and just isn't able to achieve. BTW, nice to see you in this forum also besides ultimate metal forum!

 

[PJ1]

That tone sounds like two mics out of phase slightly. That's a common studio trick. They move one mic back to get some phase shift. Use the Delay in the Cab block to dial in some phase shift. Probably lots of post-processing there too.

One mic sounds very close to the speaker so I would try the Redwirez with a really short distance for one of them.

Watch "Andrew Wade: How to Get Rid of Fizz on Digital Guitar Tracks" on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_2m31dPlE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Dual microphone capability on a single cab with On/Off or even variable axis control capability sounds like a powerful tool!

 

[Fabio KTG]

I've got to say, it sounds like you are missing some high end detail in your tone 8-11Khz. I think your tone is nearly there, but over the years Ive found that most guitar tones that sound excellent on their own sound like crap in a mix and it's a PITA to dial it out. Maybe you could post a clip of your tone in context for us to listen to. It sounds like the tone in your head is a live one, not one that is necessarily suitable for recording.

Do not give up. Rest the amp block and put a Recto V30 and a Bogner T75 in there and dial the mic's to taste. I usually like a '57 and a '121.

Is it possible to take a snap shot of your frequency curve? If you don't have an Spectrum Analysing software, you could always play into the Tone Match block and take a photo of your front panel. It will help us isolate your problem and give us direction in what advice to give to you.

 

[Dutch]

I should have taken this time to consolidate my presets for practice tonight... Yet.

Something like this close?



Guitar is a Warmoth Superstrat with JB humbucker.

As I wrote in the comment, I'm not anywhere near a metal player so such tightness is a talent I have not developed. Same for my skill and knowledge of metal tones. So forgive me if this is totally wrong.

This is radically tweaked from Fremen's Petrucci V10 preset, totally redid everything except the cab. The cabs are Petrucci mix and Cali, both bright Mesa cabs, both the Amp EQ and the PEQ are laughing their asses off. So that's a double smile EQ. And Bright, treble and presence dimed.

I am not burdened with knowledge of how Petrucci sets his amps.

I don't quite have the hollowness down, but I prefer it slightly less hollow.

I WOULD NOT GIG THIS PRESET! It's liable to take your head of at thirty yards.

 

[simeon]

i think your tone is pretty good (second example, original post). i just think it lacks a little extension in the top and bottom. simply pushing up the bottom and top bands on the mesa eq very slightly would do the trick

you're also comparing it to a clip which to me, sounds compressed. have you tried running the MBC block after the cab?

 

[MetalGarret]

Here's the preset for the last one. I actually did add somemore high end between 8k and 16k. Feel free to tweak it.

As it stands now, this one is REALLY close. I don't have time to tweak it myself cause I have work in about 5 minutes. I'll be back later today to try again or maybe someone might have a great take on it.

And Sorry for whoever's post I havent replied to yet. Im short on time is all.

 

[ToneLabRat]

I'm gonna start off with an apology. I'm sorry I've been posting all the time on the forums about not being able to "find that tone" and everything. I've been posting about it for what feels like a year. I'm sure there's a few out the who reads one of my posts and says to themselves, "really dude? you're still having probs?" This may sound like self-defeatism but it's possibly true.

But anyway, I'm here again on the forums lately hearing people's work and it seems like they have that edge to their tone that i've been looking for all this time. A prime example would have to be this guy:

LISTEN TO THAT! Holy shit! That sounds awesome! A great edgey and raunchy tone. Just simply fantastic. It's a tone match example btw.

Now here's me (not the same riff as above BTW):

It ain't bad. It's the best tone I could come up with that came close to what I was looking for. But it feels dull. Especially when the power chords come in. There's an edge that's missing. I don't know how to describe it.

If you listen to the first example you hear a sort of "vowel" like growl within it. It's really mean sounding. It's THAT that I'm trying to get. I'm not trying to match necessarily but I am trying to gain that ability to get that mean sound. And I just cant seem to get it.

I've tried EQ's (like the Mark EQ, Para EQ, Etc.) Drives pre/post amp, all sorts of cab combos, and Ownhammers IR's from the Mesa Celestial pack that cost me 20-something dollars. I think I also tried RedWire (?) IR's that I also paid like 7 dollars or something and they didn't work like I liked. It feels like the IRs captured all the parts of the speaker cone EXCEPT the part I'm looking for (assuming it is indeed the mic placement that gets you that sound) I tried multiple guitars. I tried finding something close to what I was looking for on Axe Exchange but there's SOOOOO many I'd lose my ears going through them all. I don't know how others are getting it.

And tone matching... I don't know how to do it properly. I watched a youtube video of a guy demonstrating with one of John Petrucci's solo stemmed tracks. He had it DEATHLY close to the original. I tried to do as he said and get close to the tone I was trying to match then bypass the cab and put in the tone match block yada yada yada. Once I hit 'enter' to match, the life of the tone just simply vanishes. It gets no where close and matter of fact it pulls me so far backwards it's hilarious.

And I'll think I have it one day and reamp my entire album with it (which takes a couple hours) I'll hear it again later that day and I feel like I've been fooled by my ears. Seems my ears play tricks on me to get me to stop for a while until the next LONG round of tweaking. This has had to have happened to me at least 20 or 30 times.

I'm totally lost. Had I found what I was looking for, my album would be out by now, I'd still have a girlfriend, and I'd be doing more chores around the house. You can call me crazy or whatever you like. But I refuse to put out an album that I'm only OKAY with because I wish I had found the growl I was looking for.

I know the Axe FX II is more than capable of generating the tone I need. I can hear it in other people's clips that are fucking awesome! I just can't seem to get there and I feel like the answer is staring me at the face wearing a Dream Theater t-shirt and a "Fuck You" hat. And after a year and a half of tweaking, I'm fried.

PS: That girlfriend part may have been overdramatic. I would have broken up with her anyway because she was a total bitch and a half.

I'm right there with you brother. I am not a gear expert - I always had a guitar and an amp and a few pedals and got a tone that worked. I don't care to specifically replicate this amp or that cab or that certain effect. I just want to generate tones that I like that crush. And I'm a busy guy with career and family. I need an efficient solution that gives me the basics that I need but allows me to spend most of my time playing and recording. A real amp however is not a good option for me - my passion is recording my own stuff in my home studio, which is my home office. The Axe has an overwhelming number of options and the hi-gain tones I want have not been readily available to me. ITS MOST CERTAINLY MY FAULT NOT THE AXE. But that doesn't solve my problem. So the tweaking continues.....

Funny you post this Garrett - I listened to a couple of the tones you posted up recently and said "damn - how do I get my tones to sound like that guy!".

 

[electronpirate]

Sorry for your troubles.

Have you considered other aspects of your chain? A guitar that just doesn't 'have it' can be a missing link. I see that you're pretty close here, but missing an ingredient that you can't find...and it might not be in the Axe...

Like Dutch, I'm not a metal guy, so everything you've posted sounds pretty good to me. But if I had to guess, I would spend a bit more time working with the IR part...leave the amp alone and spend one session just getting the IR right.

Either way, good luck.

R

 

[axel]

What would be really cool, is if the same concept Cliff uses for tone matching could be adapted for roughing in the initial preset parameters. For example, you would take a sample of an audio file that approximates the tone you are trying to achieve. Then, you press a button on the Axe Fx and it builds a basic preset (maybe only amp & cab) with the parameters optimized for that tone to get you started. This may not even be feasible, and I know, "it would depend on the guitar", "it would depend on the pickups"... but you get the basic idea. There's always a way of simplifying a process, it's just a matter of finding it. Obviously, any concept that would make the Axe Fx more "plug and play", while retaining deep editing capability would appeal to most users and potential buyers.

 

[Der JD]

Recommending a tube amp is definitely not a good solution. The OP is searching for "his" recorded tone, not a live or "amp in the room" tone. Trying to get the perfect tone for recording by micing a tube amp is going to be even more complicated and will cause frustration with no end.

Despite all the Axe's power, there are some that still never find the tone they're looking for with it. Is it possible? Maybe...maybe not.

As mentioned previously, the guitar itself could be problematic here. For example, I have several guitars but only one of them really nails my preferred modern hi-gain metal tone. The others come close but no cigar. And it's not for lack of trying. I've tried changing pickups, EQing, etc. but never have been successful in getting the same exact tone I get with that one guitar. No big deal, though. The other guitars do other tones well.

Tone is "in the hands" could be somewhat a factor as well. I think it's over exaggerated on internet forums, but it certainly is a factor, amongst many.

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

So you've tried lots of IRs, different guitars with what I'm assuming have different pickups. You've tried tone matches and other people's tone matches. You've tweaked until your ears bleed and you aren't happy.

Have you ever gotten a recorded tone out of any other rig that you're happy with? Like - an amp and cab with an SM57 on it? Or a Pod? Or any other thing? Explain if you have, please. What guitars are you recording with? What pickups are you using? How old are your strings when you record your clips? Are you sure the guy in the clip you posted hasn't applied post processing to the guitars? Like a limiter, multi-band compression, tape saturation, console saturation, or even EQ?

But mostly, I'm interested in hearing any other recorded tones that you've done that you ARE happy with. If you've never recorded tones you are happy with, how do you know whether or not the Axe-fx II recording experience would differ?

EDIT: And for the record, I'm pretty sure what the guy has going in that clip is a drive pedal in front of an amp with very little gain and it's being pushed really hard, and he's probably got some air dialed in on the cab as well as (maybe) a dialed in amount of motor drive. Your clip has more gain, scooped mids (especially in the 700-1500 Hz region) and a lot more bottom end. I'm also guessing he's using really fresh strings and your are old, but that's a total spitball assessment.