~Part of my point is that even to provide mid level sound reinforcement we are talking about a reasonable sum of money. If we use $3,000 as a reference we are not discussing the difference between $0 and $3,000. The Axe has to be supported by sound gear. I couldn't find anything I considered reasonably flat response in the under $1,000 stuff. So if we compare rigs featuring one cabinet the difference for me will likely be from a $1,500 FRFR system to about a $3,000 system.
(snip)
For most of us everything is a trade off.
OK, this thread is 21 pages long and I'm only a few in so its entirely possible that I am beating a dead horse here. If so, let me apologize ahead of time.
Furthermore, don't take my comments below as antagonistic or "challenging" anyone's expertise or opinions. I'm stating these things so I can learn from responses - where are my assumptions incorrect, where are they correct, etc. OK, that being said...
Like you said in reference to selling your house and cars, etc., everything is a trade off. I think the same thing should apply to gear. For me, because I'm not willing to sell my house or my G35 coupe (yup, I have one too) just yet I have to make other compromises in other areas. For myself, and I would suspect a good number of people on the forum (certainly not everyone!) we have to make a tradeoff in the gear area. For me the difference between something like a $600 EV or QSC, or even a $1000 FBT versus a $3000 Frazier (equivalent since we can't even buy a Frazier anyway!) is where I have to make the trade off. Just like buying gently used gear vs new too. Is the Frazier (or equivalent, lets just say Frazier here for argument's sake) worth 3 times the price? Maybe. But I can't buy what I can't buy. A Porsche 911 is 3 times the price of of G35 (new) and by many arguments a MUCH better car for an enthusiast. But I have other priorities, so I don't (read can't
) buy the 911. For you, you have the $$$ saved and your priorities are different from many of us. Hell, since you are a professional you could get a tax write off on that too! So, for me, the trade off is price vs superior sound, just like the car (price vs superior performance). I will suffer the lesser sound because of the money. It is perfectly valid, and a fact of life for most of us I would imagine. Even if I could currently afford it, I might still make that compromise because... well it brings me to my next point/question.
The difference can be heard in all its glory, as you described, in a studio/controlled environment. Now, take the same speakers, put them on a crap wood stage in a room/bar with awful acoustics, 300 people talking and yelling, LOUD drums to my left, monitor mix with singer, bass, etc. to my right, and the stage sound all around me in addition to the monitors - IOW an environment where it can be difficult just to hear ANYTHING above everything else, and NOW how much of a difference can be heard? I mean I'm sure a difference can be heard, but with the room and noise as the great equalizer (as in equal footing, not a graphic or para EQ!) I would be willing to be the difference diminishes. How much? I don't know. You tell me when its been tested in a club side by side
But I can't help but wonder in that awful sonic environment if the difference equals 3 to 5 times the cost. At least for me and my ears. Does the club environment drastically change where the margin of diminishing returns lies. Well, yes, but how much is really the question.
And thats just for MY benefit. You could have a million dollar monitor on stage that is the best thing ever, and your sound w/ the AxeFx is STILL going to go out through the club's crappy board and out to the audience through the cheapo PA, all manipulated by a crappy sound guy (remember, this is local clubs, etc. where a good many of us play) and to the audience it doesn't make a single bit of difference. Does it make a difference to you onstage? Sure. Can a better sound make you play better? Absolutely. But that leads us back to the previous paragraph doesn't it?
And still, the doublethink remains. I know all this (or assume it, whatever) about the venue PA, etc. and YET I still seek out the best possible stage amplification (to my ears) to try to reach the best potential.
Within my budget trade-off, that is.
This is also why when I do drag my "pretend FRFR" acoustic amp to the store to compare it to the 12 options, I plan to try the 15 options as well. I understand the theory of getting the most neutral sound and the advantage of a 12 over a 15 as Jay discussed in another thread, but it makes me wonder how much it matters in a live club situation. Part of the reason for a 12 inch is if you create a patch for a 15 inch with its added bass, when the sound is run through the PA it could actually be lacking in bass. But even if I use a 12 inch, I am still at the mercy of the club's PA system and the club's sound guy. So I could have a 12 inch and have the "right amount of bass frequencies" in there, and the sound guy could still screw it all up! And what if the club's PA system is all 15" 2-way PA cabs? THen I might have TOO MUCH bass in there! It goes both ways. Most of the clubs (again, not all) around here that have PAs tend towards the 15" and 2x15" cabs. I see many more 15" cabs than I do 12" ones. A few of the clubs with the 12" ones also have big subs too. So the advantage of the 12" as the more "correct" sound can work to your disadvantage as much as it can to your advantage, so I might as well control what I can control and get my stage sound as good as I can (with trade-offs!). If that means a 15" over a 12, or even a 10" over a 12, then so be it. I'll get whatever sounds best to me and inspired me to play my best (etc., trade-offs, blah blah).
Now, if I had the budget and I were designing the HOUSE PA system, THAT seems to me to be the best place to take advantage of the Fraziers.
Am I completely off-base here??
