IV anywhere on the horizon?

GlennO said:
You would have been happy with the Axe-FX II and by your reasoning developing the Axe-FX III was a wasted effort by FAS :).
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I'm still happy with the the Ultras.....but some iterations of the II had this, and then some had features taken away....it took the III to get all the ducks to lined up again. Glad I waited.
 
Wheez said:
The original post asked if the Axe4 was on the horizon. They were concerned about investing in a product at the end of it‘s life cycle. Fractal was nice enough to give them the info they needed. I don’t see how that would enrage a current user. I’m in the same boat. I’m interested in seeing if the Axe can replace my tube amps but I’m not making that investment in a product near its EOL. That doesn’t make sense.
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Thousands buy amps at $2k+ knowing that those amps were EOL 40 years ago.. just saying. Your tube amp works and you like how it sounds, does a replacement new amp make it sound worse perchance? nope. So its reasonable to say that the Axe-Fx III will continue to sound as good in 10 years as it does now.

But hey, If the Axe-Fx IV was announced tomorrow, it would be $3k and the rate that the waiting list fills out it would be 2-3 years before you would reasonably get one, and 4-5 years before they are "in-stock" and yet all that time the Axe-Fx III would still be the best modeler available on the planet.

So either buy an Axe-Fx III or come back in 5 years.. those are your options....and yet, in 5 years you will ask..

"Is the Axe-Fx V on the horizon?"
 
Amps don’t have an EOL. Amps produce unique, desirable sounds that last forever. The AxeFx is a device that attempts to reproduce the sounds of those amps in a more economical and convenient design. Modelers continue to get better at doing that over time. The next version will be better than the last. The last version will be also deprecated at some point in time. 50 years from now nobody will want a 2023 AxeFx because of how it’s sounds. The purpose of the Axe is to recreate the sounds of amps that are 50 years old. I love amps. I also love the idea of the modeler. I’m really interested in trying the fractal product in some form.

You’re probably right about the cost and availability.
 
Wheez said:
Amps don’t have an EOL. Amps produce unique, desirable sounds that last forever. The AxeFx is a device that attempts to reproduce the sounds of those amps in a more economical and convenient design. Modelers continue to get better at doing that over time. The next version will be better than the last. The last version will be also deprecated at some point in time. 50 years from now nobody will want a 2023 AxeFx because of how it’s sounds. The purpose of the Axe is to recreate the sounds of amps that are 50 years old. I love amps. I also love the idea of the modeler. I’m really interested in trying the fractal product in some form.

You’re probably right about the cost and availability.
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Being deprecated doesn't make it sound worse.

If you buy it today, it sounds great.

If a new product comes out, it still sounds great.
 
Wheez said:
Amps don’t have an EOL.
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EOL doesn't mean EOU (end-of-use), though.

Wheez said:
Amps produce unique, desirable sounds that last forever.
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Modelers have been passing blind tests for a few years now.

Wheez said:
50 years from now nobody will want a 2023 AxeFx because of how it’s sounds.
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Tom Scholz' Rockman series was released just over 40 years ago (c. 1982) and there's still a decent market for them.

Wheez said:
The purpose of the Axe is to recreate the sounds of amps that are 50 years old.
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And much, much more.

Wheez said:
I also love the idea of the modeler. I’m really interested in trying the fractal product in some form.
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I hope you get to try it sometime.
 
Wheez said:
Amps don’t have an EOL. Amps produce unique, desirable sounds that last forever.
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That statement seems to be incorrect.
1) Amps do have EOL (or a least end of support from the manufacturer, end of tube life, end of some component life, etc)
2) Amps do not produce "unique" sounds; they can all be accurately modeled, and you would not differentiate them on a recording.
3) Their desirable sound will only last until the tubes worn out or get microphonic, the bias adjustment is gone, or the amp is broken
Wheez said:
50 years from now nobody will want a 2023 AxeFx because of how it’s sounds.
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It will sound exactly like a 1952 Fender Twin in good condition will sound 50 years from now. Why would that be undesirable? The tone of a modeler doesn't degrade with time. The Axe-FX III has reached a point of perfection that leaves no room for dissatisfaction on the tone that you can achieve (ulness you have some ridiculous whim).
 
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Wheez said:
The purpose of the Axe is to recreate the sounds of amps that are 50 years old.
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Couldnt be more wrong there.
The stuff axe can do with amps and the advanced tweaking available you cannot even fathom doing on a physical amp in real world. Simulating and matching a real world amp model is one thing .
Having full control on the amp dynamics and the character of distortion & also the ability to accentuate or mitigate amp impedance response across the frequencies while still havinng all the world class drives, effects and other blocks with full control on the advanced parameters is another thing all together.


The latter is the real purpose of axe. The former is just for the masses who dont wanna do much.
 
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I purchased my first Fractal modeler (Axe-Fx III Turbo) just a little over a month ago. When I was considering my purchase one of my considerations was the possible release of a new model shorty after my purchase.

Based on a lot of information available on the web and a number of conversations I had with current owners of Fractal units here and on other forums I came to the following conclusions:

Fractal products are industrial grade and built to last for decades.

Cliff and his team (including a number of very skilled beta test volunteers) are constantly upgrading and tweaking the existing units.

The sound quality of the emulated amps, cabs and effects are the best in the industry.

There are many national touring acts that rely on Fractal units.

Fractal’s history is such that their earlier products, some many years old, are still considered some of the best modelers available and many are still in-use in studios and on tour.

That the current modelers are so powerful and of such high quality that they will be of higher quality (both hardware and model quality) than many competing units for many years to come because Fractal is so far out in-front of the pack already.

Lastly, that regardless of what new units might be released in the future, the Axe-Fx III Mk.II Turbo will meet my needs now and for a very long time.

So, I made the decision to purchase my first Fractal unit! Now, a little over a month later, I can honestly state that I made the right decision. I absolutely love my Fractal products (Axe-Fx III Mk. II Turbo, EV-1 and FC-12) and would never go back to using other modelers or physical amps and effects units. I would have no qualms what-so-ever about purchasing another unit (eying the FM9); even if a new unit was released tomorrow my enjoyment and utility of use of my current unit would not diminish one iota.
 
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Piing said:
That statement seems to be incorrect.
1) Amps do have EOL (or a least end of support from the manufacturer, end of tube life, end of some component life, etc)
2) Amps do not produce "unique" sounds; they can all be accurately modeled, and you would not differentiate them on a recording.
3) Their desirable sound will only last until the tubes worn out or get microphonic, the bias adjustment is gone, or the amp is broken

It will sound exactly like a 1952 Fender Twin in good condition will sound 50 years from now. Why would that be undesirable? The tone of a modeler doesn't degrade with time. The Axe-FX III has reached a point of perfection that leaves no room for dissatisfaction on the tone that you can achieve (ulness you have some ridiculous whim
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jin1995x said:
Couldnt be more wrong there.
The stuff axe can do with amps and the advanced tweaking available you cannot even fathom doing on a physical amp in real world. Simulating and matching a real world amp model is one thing .
Having full control on the amp dynamics and the character of distortion & also the ability to accentuate or mitigate amp impedance response across the frequencies while still havinng all the world class drives, effects and other blocks with full control on the advanced parameters is another thing all together.


The latter is the real purpose of axe. The former is just for the masses who dont wanna do much.
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I don’t see how you guys don’t get this. Post a sound byte of your Axe and see how many people can tell you it’s an AxeFx. Post a clip of a Marshall or a Vox or whatever and everybody will know. (Don’t say you can post a Marshall tone with your Axe, that’s exactly my point). That’s what I mean by unique. It’s a recognizable tone. Modelers don’t have a recognizable tone that I’ve ever heard (yet). Maybe somebody will get creative and use the tool to make one. Modelers are digitally emulating what a physical electronic component is doing in the physical world. The tweaks you reference are things that are done to real amps. There’s nothing wrong with that and the reasons for doing it are why I am interested in it. It’s more cost effective and more convenient. And quieter which unfortunately seems to be the way things are going these days. I appreciate the replies, you are all obviously are very happy with the device.
 
Wheez said:
I don’t see how you guys don’t get this. Post a sound byte of your Axe and see how many people can tell you it’s an AxeFx. Post a clip of a Marshall or a Vox or whatever and everybody will know. (Don’t say you can post a Marshall tone with your Axe, that’s exactly my point). That’s what I mean by unique. It’s a recognizable tone. Modelers don’t have a recognizable tone that I’ve ever heard (yet). Maybe somebody will get creative and use the tool to make one. Modelers are digitally emulating what a physical electronic component is doing in the physical world. The tweaks you reference are things that are done to real amps. There’s nothing wrong with that and the reasons for doing it are why I am interested in it. It’s more cost effective and more convenient. And quieter which unfortunately seems to be the way things are going these days. I appreciate the replies, you are all obviously are very happy with the device.
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I have been a gigging and recording guitarist for 55 years (I’m 70). During that time I have owned, and used, just about every major amp make and model and many, many effects units. I am not able to hear a difference between Axe-Fx unit amp models and the “real” amps in a mix. In fact, it’s hard to hear a substantial difference between Fractal models and “real“ amps when they are compared to each other in a live setting.

For sure, consumers of the music we produce will never hear a difference at all. We sometimes forget that we produce music for consumers, not ourselves and our peers.

To me, the day of the “real” amp and cab is passing and the day of the modeler is here and taking the lead. The many benefits associated with using a modeler far outweigh the slight difference in overall tone loss (if there is actually any) that comes from modelers use.
 
I’m 55, we probably share a lot of the same experiences. Good to hear you are liking the Axe. I’ve tried every modeler/profiler but the AxeFx and they all came up short. If I knew this thing had at least a couple of years left in it before the next piece of hardware I would have already ordered one. In the mean time I’m sitting on fence and still smelling the tubes burning :)
 
Wheez said:
Post a sound byte of your Axe and see how many people can tell you it’s an AxeFx. Post a clip of a Marshall or a Vox or whatever and everybody will know.
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People know of marshall, because of it being used over the years by great artists and icons and because they exist since long before the advent of modelling . That's why people recognize it. Otherwise to most people all distortion sounds the same. Its only us guitar nerds obsessing over the details.
You are correct when you say fractal models the components. But tweak ability is beyond . you will realize it only when you purchase and use one for a couple of years
Not everything can be tweaked in real life.
for example you can't tweak the Speaker impedance curve.- this has a large effect on how the amp sounds as well as feels. and responds .
You cant flip the transformer matching ratios on a real amp without a tedious procedure or turn off the sag completely at your whims or mess or change the negative feed back or change the tone stack center frequency to change how the bmt knobs react or mess with the presence and depth frequencies and still change the triode plate freqs in seconds, change the location of master volume and tone stack in a circuit . You can mess with the bias excursion, hardness everything. Its a stretch to say all this is possible in real amps some of it is certainly like the saturation mods , and its tedious, and it can fuck it up if you dont like it.
The sound of these tweaks on an amp is certainly unique and can produce desirable results if you can understand what you're doing .Its distinguishable atleast to the player. and thats what matters the most.
Theres alot of original FAS Amps too that are far better than many real amps.
It is true fractal started as a modeller aiming to replicate amps. Its much much more now in my opinion.
 
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Wheez said:
I’m interested in seeing if the Axe can replace my tube amps but I’m not making that investment in a product near its EOL.
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How are you defining End of Life?

There's End of Sale, which doesn't sound like it's going to be any time soon with the III. It's also not impossible to think that increases in CPU speed and flash storage could allow FAS to continue with the III lineage/architecture, just as they did with the Mark II and then the Turbo.

Then there's End of Support. FAS has tended to continue issuing updates to previous generations for as long as the hardware can handle where they're taking things. End of Sale doesn't appear to be any time soon, and End of Support will probably be years after that.

With that in mind, End of Life to me is if or when my III can no longer do what I'm wanting it to do. I've had a III for just over 3 years, and it could replace my tube amps and effects if I wanted it too, and more. If I didn't already own a III, I'd have zero misgivings about buying a Mark II Turbo today, even with the III "generation" already being several years old. Even if you look at used ones as a way of decreasing your investment, you'll see that they retain a lot of their value. If/when something new comes out, I'll be able to recoup a decent amount of my original investment towards the purchase of whatever's next.

FWIW.
 
Wheez said:
I don’t see how you guys don’t get this. Post a sound byte of your Axe and see how many people can tell you it’s an AxeFx. Post a clip of a Marshall or a Vox or whatever and everybody will know. (Don’t say you can post a Marshall tone with your Axe, that’s exactly my point). That’s what I mean by unique. It’s a recognizable tone. Modelers don’t have a recognizable tone that I’ve ever heard (yet). Maybe somebody will get creative and use the tool to make one. Modelers are digitally emulating what a physical electronic component is doing in the physical world. The tweaks you reference are things that are done to real amps. There’s nothing wrong with that and the reasons for doing it are why I am interested in it. It’s more cost effective and more convenient. And quieter which unfortunately seems to be the way things are going these days. I appreciate the replies, you are all obviously are very happy with the device.
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The FAS Skull crusher model is just as different as any two high gain heads you can name are to each other. Unless you are saying you think the Skull crusher sounds exactly like some other high gain amp, then I would love to hear which one..

The whole logic you're using can be applied to the Kemper, because the Kemper literally only profiles other amps it doesn't have it's own amp models. However it makes no sense applied to the Axe FX or even the Helix. Both these devices are called MODELERS, but in reality, both the Axe FX and Helix MODEL amps as well as use digital technology to create their own amplifiers.

And you know what. You say post a clip of X amp and EVERYONE can tell you what it was. If that's the case why is there 100000000000000000 threads on guitar forums of people asking what was used on X album. If it's SOOOOO easy to tell because every tube amp is sooooo unique why soooooo many threads of this kind?
 
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