Issues with PC and CC messages using Reaper

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Kubajashy

New Member
Hi all, I'm trying to program the preset and scene change on the FM3 via reaper, using MIDI features. The rig is the following, reaper, audio interface with MIDI OUT, MIDI IN of the FM3. I watched a couple of videos about it, by Cooper Carter and Marco Fanton, and I understood the logic of it all. On the Reaper project that I use live with the band, I put in a new track, making sure that the output matches the sound card used for MIDI messages. On the FM3 I made sure the MIDI settings are correct (CC+34 for scene changes) The point is that even if the procedure I apply is correct, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, randomly jumping on presets or unwanted scenes, making the system unreliable for live use. I'm not very good at explaining but if any of you understand what I've written and have had the same problems or know how to solve them, please listen. Thanks to those who will answer me
 
The FM3 will operate based on the midi it receives.

It sounds like either:

  • You're sending other midi than what you intended
  • Your midi interface is not good and it's doing unwanted stuff to the midi
 
Rex said:
Can you give us an example of a MIDI command that has given you problems?
Click to expand...
I try, at any point, at the beginning of a new song for example, I insert a new media event, let's do that I need to start the song with the 001 preset, I make sure it's a PC event. I enter the required parameters, channel 1, and number of the desired preset. Initially it also works, if I go to any other preset and then start Reaper, it does what I ask it to do. Next I need a scene change, for example to go to a lead, which on FM3 will be on scene 2 of the 001 preset. I insert another media event making sure that it is a CC event where I need, again channel 1, controller 34 (as set on FM3 in the MIDI remote menu) value 1 (MIDI offset that corresponds to scene 2 of the current preset); Again, maybe it works right away, sometimes not right away but after a while. Sometimes, however, FM3 freezes (even manually changing on the knobs nothing happens) and to unlock it I have to turn it off, disconnect the MIDI or USB cable, or wait for it to wake up on a random preset Sometimes instead of going to the programmed preset, it goes on a random preset, then the CC also works but on an unwanted preset! In another case, it halves the delays or makes the sound appear as if with a tremolo always on; Again, I use the above methods to unlock it. I'm not sure if I've been able to describe what happens, but it freaks me out. I don't know if it depends on which MIDI port I use on the FM3 (IN or OUT/THRU), if I have to review the settings in the MIDI remote menu (PC mapping etc) or whatever, because there are moments that work perfectly, which makes me think that everything is correct as far as MIDI programming is concerned.
 
unix-guy said:
The FM3 will operate based on the midi it receives.

It sounds like either:

  • You're sending other midi than what you intended
  • Your midi interface is not good and it's doing unwanted stuff to the midi
Click to expand...
between the two options, the second could be plausible, it is a cheap card from Behringer.
 
Kubajashy said:
I try, at any point, at the beginning of a new song for example, I insert a new media event, let's do that I need to start the song with the 001 preset, I make sure it's a PC event. I enter the required parameters, channel 1, and number of the desired preset. Initially it also works, if I go to any other preset and then start Reaper, it does what I ask it to do. Next I need a scene change, for example to go to a lead, which on FM3 will be on scene 2 of the 001 preset. I insert another media event making sure that it is a CC event where I need, again channel 1, controller 34 (as set on FM3 in the MIDI remote menu) value 1 (MIDI offset that corresponds to scene 2 of the current preset); Again, maybe it works right away, sometimes not right away but after a while. Sometimes, however, FM3 freezes (even manually changing on the knobs nothing happens) and to unlock it I have to turn it off, disconnect the MIDI or USB cable, or wait for it to wake up on a random preset Sometimes instead of going to the programmed preset, it goes on a random preset, then the CC also works but on an unwanted preset! In another case, it halves the delays or makes the sound appear as if with a tremolo always on; Again, I use the above methods to unlock it. I'm not sure if I've been able to describe what happens, but it freaks me out. I don't know if it depends on which MIDI port I use on the FM3 (IN or OUT/THRU), if I have to review the settings in the MIDI remote menu (PC mapping etc) or whatever, because there are moments that work perfectly, which makes me think that everything is correct as far as MIDI programming is concerned.
Click to expand...
The "random" preset thing may not be random.

Midi presets are 0-127 (or 1-128 with offset in place).

The Fractal has multiple banks of presets. If your offset is set to 1, they will be 1-128, 129-256, 257-384.

If you are on preset 150 you are in the 2nd bank.

If you send PC 001 while you are there, you will get to preset 129 - which is preset 001 of the 2nd bank.

If you want to make precise preset changes then you should precede the PC with a bank change.

CC#0 value of 0 == bank 1
CC#0 value of 1 == bank 2
CC#0 value of 2 == bank 3
...

So, if you want to get to preset 001 on the FM3, use:

CC#0 value 0
PC#001

If you want to get to preset 129 on the FM3:

CC#0 value 1
PC#001

Again, this is assuming you have Display Offset and Midi Offset set to 1, not 0.
 
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I had the same issue (odd switching and bad changes) when I was using a no-name cable (USB to MIDI). Since then I switched to the MAudio Uno and it was unrecognizable and would not install. Endless messages to MAudio and finally I ditched it. Went with the Roland UM One MK2 and everything works perfectly. Make sure you are using a USB out from your PC that supplies power, as the Roland needs it.

I will say that you will need to offset, in Reaper, the placement of the midi item. Usually an eight note ahead of where you want it to fall or sometimes a dotted eighth. You have to mees with it several times for it work out to your feel.

I use this system with all of my repertoire and it works great.
 
Boltneck Music said:
I had the same issue (odd switching and bad changes) when I was using a no-name cable (USB to MIDI). Since then I switched to the MAudio Uno and it was unrecognizable and would not install. Endless messages to MAudio and finally I ditched it. Went with the Roland UM One MK2 and everything works perfectly. Make sure you are using a USB out from your PC that supplies power, as the Roland needs it.

I will say that you will need to offset, in Reaper, the placement of the midi item. Usually an eight note ahead of where you want it to fall or sometimes a dotted eighth. You have to mees with it several times for it work out to your feel.

I use this system with all of my repertoire and it works great.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll try to check the MIDI offset, but as far as the cable is concerned I can only use a MIDI - MIDI cable
 
unix-guy said:
The "random" preset thing may not be random.

Midi presets are 0-127 (or 1-128 with offset in place).

The Fractal has multiple banks of presets. If your offset is set to 1, they will be 1-128, 129-256, 257-384.

If you are on preset 150 you are in the 2nd bank.

If you send PC 001 while you are there, you will get to preset 129 - which is preset 001 of the 2nd bank.

If you want to make precise preset changes then you should precede the PC with a bank change.

CC#0 value of 0 == bank 1
CC#0 value of 1 == bank 2
CC#0 value of 2 == bank 3
...

So, if you want to get to preset 001 on the FM3, use:

CC#0 value 0
PC#001

If you want to get to preset 129 on the FM3:

CC#0 value 1
PC#001

Again, this is assuming you have Display Offset and Midi Offset set to 1, not 0.
Click to expand...
I will check the offset settings, thank you.
 
Make sure MIDI Mapping is turned OFF in the MIDI/Remote menu. That can mess with switching for sure.

Also, if your presets are high CPU, other functions can be affected. Audio always gets priority in Fractal devices.
 
mr_fender said:
Make sure MIDI Mapping is turned OFF in the MIDI/Remote menu. That can mess with switching for sure.

Also, if your presets are high CPU, other functions can be affected. Audio always gets priority in Fractal devices.
Click to expand...
Here I am again, so I've changed the PC mapping setting so that it's turned off and it seems to be working great. I'll try to see how it behaves, but it seems that was the problem with the anomalous behavior. Now I find myself with another problem, I have to write a whammy expression that is particularly difficult to write by hand and I was wondering if it was possible to connect the expression pedal to the sound card and use it as a controller to write it. However, I'm afraid this is outside the FM3 theme and I have to look for information on Raaper forums or something similar. Thank you very much for the suggestion you gave me.
 
unix-guy said:
The "random" preset thing may not be random.

Midi presets are 0-127 (or 1-128 with offset in place).

The Fractal has multiple banks of presets. If your offset is set to 1, they will be 1-128, 129-256, 257-384.

If you are on preset 150 you are in the 2nd bank.

If you send PC 001 while you are there, you will get to preset 129 - which is preset 001 of the 2nd bank.

If you want to make precise preset changes then you should precede the PC with a bank change.

CC#0 value of 0 == bank 1
CC#0 value of 1 == bank 2
CC#0 value of 2 == bank 3
...

So, if you want to get to preset 001 on the FM3, use:

CC#0 value 0
PC#001

If you want to get to preset 129 on the FM3:

CC#0 value 1
PC#001

Again, this is assuming you have Display Offset and Midi Offset set to 1, not
Click to expand...
I checked and the offset is 0, big thanks.
 
Kubajashy said:
Now I find myself with another problem, I have to write a whammy expression that is particularly difficult to write by hand and I was wondering if it was possible to connect the expression pedal to the sound card and use it as a controller to write it. However, I'm afraid this is outside the FM3 theme and I have to look for information on Raaper forums or something similar. Thank you very much for the suggestion you gave me.
Click to expand...
No, it's not... Expression pedal data isn't sent out.

You could get a midi expression pedal or use some other midi controller that does, such as the AudioFront Expression IO.
 
unix-guy said:
No, it's not... Expression pedal data isn't sent out.

You could get a midi expression pedal or use some other midi controller that does, such as the AudioFront Expression IO.
Click to expand...
yes, I searched around and came to the same conclusion. I'm thinking of trying it with the keyboard via its pitch modulator by connecting it midi to the sound card. Let's see if it works. Thanks again
 
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