I think Marshall are getting nervous..

dpeterson said:
I doubt it.. I've yet to be able to get a good slash marshall tone out of the axe... tried a bunch, but the demos of the development, and right when it was released, I cant get near. would love to have that sound... probably need to mess with it more.
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Slash tone is 95,5 % in his hands ( and I'm not a super-fan ) but we have to be honest ...

He can get "his sound" with a Marshall, a Dumble , a Fender , a AxeFx of course but even with a crappy 10W Crate...
That' way smart music store owners have always good guitarist demoing and not averqge crappy guitarist
Sound is always the most in the hands ...

Said that ... Last Marshall epiphany had , was 35 years ago... Big NUMBERS usually go against quality ... not always ... But most of the times
 
While I do tend to agree with the tone is in the hands thing, I am always reminded of Van Halen's And The Cradle Will Rock…
That main rhythm sound is a Wurlitzer played through his amp. Still sounds like him playing guitar but that's an electric piano :) So, sometimes the amp has it's very unique sonic imprint and will sound the same no matter what is put in front of it.
 
yeeeah... I never really bought into the hands thing. It's a system of physics, so sure, the density of his fingertips vs. yours or mine *might* be significantly different; his pick strokes, etc., but that's still only a relatively small part of the equation that also accounts for things like the material his picks are made of, his string gauges and tensions, cable capacitance & signal degradation, amp/cab/speaker choice, mic placement, room, listener's ears, blah blah blah...

And Slash isn't even known for being a particularly clean, technically gifted player at that. He has his signature style, for sure, but a virtuoso... not so much. He's known best for playing catchy hooks that get kids into learning guitar in the first place, not for wild yet perfectly coordinated sweep runs that appeal to the Yengweenie crowd.

So, he might still sound like himself from a stylistic perspective, same as EVH or any of the other household names, but a crappy 10w Crate is and always will be a crappy 10w Crate. The vids of Zakk Wylde showing off his signature MG's "brootz" sounds just like any other nasty MG, even with ZW plugged into it. Same thing.
 
Ahahah so we are Talkin about a blues rocker and You start with clean and technical??

Ahahhaah ... So it's time to throw in the trash all Santana and Led Zeppelin stuff ... No way man ... I desagree with you ... Ad I Said before I'm not a fan but this dure can play ...

P.s. Crate is a crappy amp , but even a crappy amp can rock if recorded and mixed with fantasy and musicality...
 
vinnyburns said:
While I do tend to agree with the tone is in the hands thing, I am always reminded of Van Halen's And The Cradle Will Rock…
That main rhythm sound is a Wurlitzer played through his amp. Still sounds like him playing guitar but that's an electric piano :) So, sometimes the amp has it's very unique sonic imprint and will sound the same no matter what is put in front of it.
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MIND BLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've heard that song so many times, I can't believe I never picked up on that. I had to go listen to it on Youtube because I thought you were full of it. I'm now questioning my own existence...
 
Noriuky73 said:
Ahahah so we are Talkin about a blues rocker and You start with clean and technical??

Ahahhaah ... So it's time to throw in the trash all Santana and Led Zeppelin stuff ... No way man ... I desagree with you ... Ad I Said before I'm not a fan but this dure can play ...

P.s. Crate is a crappy amp , but even a crappy amp can rock if recorded and mixed with fantasy and musicality...
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It is what it is. Would you have preferred I listed off some jazz prodigy? Or even in the blues rock context there are many more articulate - and IMO soulful - players. Beck, Haynes, Bonamassa, Allman (both of them), Perry (who was Hudson's guitar teacher), and especially Santana, but Santana didn't write Welcome to the Jungle or Sweet Child O' Mine... Have another listen to old Page, then some of his later stuff with Zep. It's like going from "kid in Guitar Center" to world class overnight, so I pretty much rule him out for having an unfair advantage (deal with the devil).

And sure, studio magic is exactly that. Take that crate, prop it up against a baby grand and record the sympathetic vibrations, then quad track it with 7 different mics at a time, all through complimentary pres... but just sit in the room with it, plug in and play, no way will it rock for anyone. I'd be more than happy to go hit up a pawn shop and swap whatever I find for fifty bucks for your AFX and you can proceed to prove me wrong ;)
 
mr_fender said:
MIND BLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've heard that song so many times, I can't believe I never picked up on that. I had to go listen to it on Youtube because I thought you were full of it. I'm now questioning my own existence...
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Hahaha. It's so obvious once you know but it sounds so similar. Remember reading an interview so many years ago where Ed said he plugged the electric piano through his stack on that song. I put the track on listening for a piano then it dawned on me that what I had thought was the rhythm guitar was the Wurlitzer. :) Sounds brilliant.
 
mr_fender said:
MIND BLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've heard that song so many times, I can't believe I never picked up on that. I had to go listen to it on Youtube because I thought you were full of it. I'm now questioning my own existence...
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Hah... make that another mind blown... did exactly the same, straight over to Youtube... easy to pick when you know but i have heard the song countless times and never realised.
 
Sure the Axe-Fx kills everything out there just because you have the ability to get that mic'ed sound out of one box. Try getting that with a real amp and finding the mic placement etc. it takes a lot of work. Still the Axe-Fx is trying to sound like the Marshall (and many amps also) but one is the real thing and one is a modeler. :D
 
The amps, pedals and all the 'old' methods of getting the job done won't be going away anytime soon. I still own a Marshall and I love it, it's a great amp. I won't sell it, but it just never gets the chance to leave the house anymore!
A lot of musicians literally don't have the patience to deal with a product like the Axe-Fx. It's not a plug & play device, and takes careful programming to achieve the sounds you want. Plus, some of the less open-minded among them see all this new-fangled computerised stuff as nonsense. Absolutely fair play to them. I understand, it would be a simpler option. Especially after updating to FW15 and having to re-program all my presets, yet again, and only noticing marginal audible improvements from the previous version. I am not complaining at all, because I'm one of the many among us who are prepared to sit and do all that. You get out what you put in time-wise. But many are not so enthused by that prospect. Sometimes it's good to plug into a real amp and just play, similar to picking up an acoustic and strumming away. It's all good.
 
Cliff has done more than just imitating amps. With virtual design of how the circuits and its components interact we already have the base for tweaking any amp in ways not easily done in real life. The next generation Axe, I bet, will morph into a design tool. I have lost any desire to own a real amp. I have them all :) Thanks again Cliff!
 
The best part of the Afx is being your own amp tech. Want to change your bright cap, go ahead. how about a bigger output transformer, why not. Bias your amp hot enough to make the real world counter part go up in smoke, sure. countless other mods you can do without spending a fortune on a tech.

 
Rotti said:
And sure, studio magic is exactly that. Take that crate, prop it up against a baby grand and record the sympathetic vibrations, then quad track it with 7 different mics at a time, all through complimentary pres...
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Or, you can find a player that can make that amp sound great.
I fully believe in the 'tone is in the fingers', just because I've witnessed it so many times.
I've been fortunate to play with some guys that can make any amp/guitar sound great.
Even when he plays my amp, I think - man, it doesn't sound like that when I play it.

I had an engineering class with David Moulten once, and he shared a story about ergonimics and players.
They took two keyboards and put the same components IN the keyboard, but the two boards had different keys and had different ergonimic feel to them.
They had people play both keyboards and they recorded the tone.
The keyboard with the best ergonimic feel, sounded best on the recordings.
This is a slightly different example, but proof that 'execution' is a big piece of the tone puzzle.
Slash can execute better than me. Doesn't matter if we have the same gear, it will sound better when he plays....
 
craiguitar said:
The amps, pedals and all the 'old' methods of getting the job done won't be going away anytime soon. I still own a Marshall and I love it, it's a great amp. I won't sell it, but it just never gets the chance to leave the house anymore!
A lot of musicians literally don't have the patience to deal with a product like the Axe-Fx. It's not a plug & play device, and takes careful programming to achieve the sounds you want. Plus, some of the less open-minded among them see all this new-fangled computerised stuff as nonsense. Absolutely fair play to them. I understand, it would be a simpler option. Especially after updating to FW15 and having to re-program all my presets, yet again, and only noticing marginal audible improvements from the previous version. I am not complaining at all, because I'm one of the many among us who are prepared to sit and do all that. You get out what you put in time-wise. But many are not so enthused by that prospect. Sometimes it's good to plug into a real amp and just play, similar to picking up an acoustic and strumming away. It's all good.
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Yes, great points.
 
dpeterson said:
this is what i'm talking about tone wise... not slash playing either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehwnoo1sFxU
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Sounds cool. I have an AFD100 schematic here. It's a bit confusing to follow because it's not clear what the relays are doing and the fx loop isn't shown but it's more than enough to create an amp model if I had the actual amp. I'll hunt around for one. At first glance it's very JCM800'ish.
 
BBN said:
Or, you can find a player that can make that amp sound great.
I fully believe in the 'tone is in the fingers', just because I've witnessed it so many times.
I've been fortunate to play with some guys that can make any amp/guitar sound great.
Even when he plays my amp, I think - man, it doesn't sound like that when I play it.

I had an engineering class with David Moulten once, and he shared a story about ergonimics and players.
They took two keyboards and put the same components IN the keyboard, but the two boards had different keys and had different ergonimic feel to them.
They had people play both keyboards and they recorded the tone.
The keyboard with the best ergonimic feel, sounded best on the recordings.
This is a slightly different example, but proof that 'execution' is a big piece of the tone puzzle.
Slash can execute better than me. Doesn't matter if we have the same gear, it will sound better when he plays....
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But nothing that you just described is actually TONE, it's SKILL and STYLE. Van Halen can rip out Hot for Teacher better than anyone else on the planet (or at least he should). No matter what he's playing through, the articulation (or intentional slurs) and timing of his version will be spot on. That still doesn't correlate with his TONE being that much better than anyone else's. Case and point, take a dry signal of [big name guitarist] and reamp it through a few different sources, then please tell me that there's no significant differences. Timing and musicality lend themselves greatly to the listener's experience and enjoyment, and of course that can lead some to think of superior players as having inherently superior tone, but TONE is a collection of frequencies (modulating or otherwise) at a given point in time.
 
FractalAudio said:
Sounds cool. I have an AFD100 schematic here. It's a bit confusing to follow because it's not clear what the relays are doing and the fx loop isn't shown but it's more than enough to create an amp model if I had the actual amp. I'll hunt around for one. At first glance it's very JCM800'ish.
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Brit Super is my current main amp... I'm not sure if it sounds anything like the AFD100 but please don't remove that amp sim we have there. It's amazing for metal! Everything at noon and a good IR and you're done. :)
 
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