Here is an odd situation..

Or he's just a sceptic waiting to be enlightened. I think subtle enlightenment might be the best course here. No use in making enemies. And I don't think ganging up on him with the sound man is

Obviously he wants you on the team, from his text. So you are in a good starting position. You've got the gear, you've got the skill, you can lead him out from the dark side!
Maybe on a have him sit at the mix position and demo the AxeFx FOH sound versus the /13 rig? After awhile subtly nudge his mic off position to demonstrate the dangers?
 
Do most Churches in the US have bands play in them? I read a lot on this forum and other guitar forums about people playing at Church.
 
I have a similar background story to you my friend and have experienced something similar at our new church. Feel free to PM me for specifics if you are interested in a further discussion.

As for your worship leader's opinion about going direct in and not having success, it really comes down to what type of gear your front of house/sanctuary is utilizing as well as WHO is running the sound... His opinion is subjective to what works for him specifically for so many years, but let's be honest, it is old schoolz. I personally have blown away my more modernized/contemporary church (playing Jesus Culture, Lincoln Brewster, Hillsong) with the Axe FX with it's simplicity of configuration (EQ/direct method) and versatility without having 1,952 pedals on the floor making it look like the Edge is playing at church again.

In addition to everyone's opinions here, spend some time matching his rig and configuration in a preset to make it sound identical. Once you have done that, show up a half hour before rehearsal with your sound guy and have him run a flat EQ on your rig to maybe dial in an identical tone without an amp on stage.

Having a loud AC30 in the front of the church is really distracting for some people and is definitely difficult to manage when mic'ing a cab for the sound guys. Going direct in to ANY system has it's challenges, but is more easily controlled and configured.

Hope that helps, this was the perfect forum to ask the question. It definitely will be biased, but at least you get some dynamic ways to approach the situation for your old school worship leader ;) .

BTW - my worship leader now plays through an Avid ElevenRack to model his previous amp without requiring a live amp on stage ;) . HAHA, sucka'!
 
mogvinda said:
Do most Churches in the US have bands play in them? I read a lot on this forum and other guitar forums about people playing at Church.
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Yep around late '94 the modern day worship movement came in to be, It has just picked up steam from there. I live in Arizona and there are more churches on every corner then Bars. Most every grade school, high school has a church in it on Sundays. I have been playing in Churches it seems like forever. I'm not opposed to playing in other areas such as bars or theatres, Its just hard to find a band that doesn't want to play what everyone else is playing. That to me is played out. I am older and don't have the patience for stupidity these days.

I love playing them, I feel that's what I have been called to do, so I do it. If you can, you do, that simple.
 
Rook said:
I doubt it. I don't think the musical director's problem is the sound of the Axe rig, I think his problem is that that isn't the way he has always done it.
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That would be my guess... folks (especially those in churches who are, or have been entrenched in that role/position for some time) tend to get comfortable with how things work (their way). The churches I've played have all been volunteer with a few "paid" players thrown in. You have to deal with what's available, so when something new comes along, leaders are hesitant to change.

To me, the issue is the tube/modeler paradigm shift for many.. I have 2 of them in my current band (I'm playing bass) who are tube "guys". It's all they have ever used, can't believe that ANY modeler can replace their amps and have more money on their pedal boards than I do in my entire bass rig. Adding to my frustration is that they don't know that I played lead guitar (rock) for many years before going down the bass route, have never heard me play, but I KNOW where they are coming from. Couple that with moving to an all IEM wireless monitor rig (everybody is wireless in and out, except drummer) and I have to folks who are struggling to adjust -like the OP's lead.

I'll give my guys full credit for going down this route and sticking to it, but they are BOTH having trouble adjusting. It surfaces mainly in their monitor mixes... they are NOT comfortable with hearing that "mic'd amp" sound in their ears, miss the amp-in-the-room feeling and (even tho' they both have amp shields) feel that cranking the amps on stage is going to solve their problem and bypass the IEM's "sterile" sound in their heads. One is even pulling out one of his IEM's to hear/feel that stage sound.... I put it down to the single driver IEM's, but I'm running quad drivers.. so I have no spatial issues.

My point is that many folks don't like change.. especially those who are comfortable with something that they believe works. Let this guy sit down and play your rig for himself with HIS OWN guitar.. Run thru your presets, try the factory ones.. let him know that you have tried it with his rig, want to go back to your own AND what the sound guy says!
You need to convince this guy that your rig is perfectly good and that YOU are more comfortable playing YOURS than HIS !
 
Thanks everyone for chiming in.. Tons of viewpoints, which is how I like it. Always good to get the perspective of of many on a situation.

I don't want to paint the leader in a negative light. He's a cool dude who is just trying to do the best he can with what he's been given. He came into a VERY old fashioned church with the odds stacked well against him. He was leader #13 (read into that all you wish.. haha) in 6 years, so a lot of people just assumed he would be gone within 6 months, just like the rest. He is the first guy who's been able to consistently bring modern and contemporary music into this church and culture, as well. For roughly 30 years it was the 80s mega church regime and it just wasn't effective if they wanted anyone under the age of 60 to be attracted to what they had to offer. He's done well assembling a team with the talent pool available and currently only pays the drummer. For a little more context to the setup, the AC30 that rips is backstage and mic'd up. Its just angled in a manner that it sweeps around the building to the sound booth and back of the room. The /13 is mic'd in an iso cab. Their stage is silent except for some poorly isolated/mic'd and tuned drums (but thats another thread entirely..) and everyone is on in-ears, which I've used for 8 years or so now. Silent stage excluding a couple small monitors for background vocalists.

I have no beef or issue with him on a personal level, just trying to work through this difference of opinion, as we're are both trying to achieve the same thing. I know many here will hopefully understand what I'm trying to say.
I'll work on tonematching his rig, as mentioned, to run it through the house and show that it has all the capability. Getting that basic sound dialed in should take care of all of his hesitation. Then I can show what scenes + expression pedals and modifiers can bring to the table to help cover all the sonic territory that is necessary.

Hopefully I can tweak my own preferences, tone wise, to find a compromise between his /13 foundation and my smoother gain preferences. I'm not trying to run Dream Theater Mark IIC+ rhythm levels of gain, but I think its the character of the drive that I prefer is what he wasn't so keen on. If that makes sense.


To a few of you who offered some advice via PM, I greatly appreciate it. There were some points brought up that I'll follow up with sometime soon. I'm in the middle of a stretch of 12 nights at work (love that shift work......) so if I get some down time I'll shoot some PMs around. I'd also love to hear and test out that Dumble patch with scenes! I've wanted to go after that Lincoln Brewster tone for a long time, but never was quite able to get there. My strat has simple single coils and my Anderson's humbuckers are thicker than his Area pickups in his strats. Was never sure how to compensate. His tone just works so well for that type of music and I'd LOVE to incorporate that into my presets for the church!


I think perspective and opposition to 'status quo' is a healthy thing for all of us. When we can achieve dialogue between differing opinions, not only does it give us the opportunity to bring new information and experiences to another, but we can't forget to allow ourselves to learn as well. We (anyone who plays in a band situation) cannot accomplish what we want to accomplish without the team (band), so why build a one sided wall of pride and refuse to hear the other side? I've found too many times that just listening can often be the best way to get someone else to listen.

Thanks gents! I'll update this thread as things progress.
 
PlaysARobin,

I'd just add these thoughts:

1. You need to start & end with talking to the leader. Find out what he's thinking and work through that.
2. Ultimately, you are there to serve the people. Can you play through someone else's rig if that's what they require?
3. This is where the Spirit of God comes into play. Consult Him. :)
 
Can you play a couple of tunes using his rig then a couple using the axe and record them off the board so he can hear the difference?
 
Plenty of churches with bands in the UK. Check out worshipcentral.org.uk.

Personally I don't think that should be the basis of comparison for a church of course. In my mind the message is still more important than the music.
 
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