Has anyone comparerd the Xitone wedges to CLRs?

I've had my Acoustic 360 since 1971. It sounds the same today as it did when I bought it after years & years of heavy use. I've had the speakers for my guitar rig for 20+ years & they sound like they did when I first bought them. I think maybe with guitar speakers that are being pushed to distortion, it's more speaker break down than break in. I would expect that to cause a change in sound. I don't think anyone is always right including me. I have seen no personal evidence of this & Jay says after years of research, he hasn't either. Some one at Eminence says it does happen. I would like to see specific measurable evidence that it does happen but they don't offer it, at least not in that article. They may say that to keep people from returning speakers saying they don't like the way it sounds. Eminence tells them, hey, keep playing it. It will break in & sound better over time but what is more likely really happening is they become accustomed to how they sound. My current bass rig uses an Eminence 12 so in 10 or 12 years I'll let you know if it changes at all. So far, after 2 years. it hasn't.
 
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notalemming said:
I've had my Acoustic 360 since 1971. It sounds the same today as it did when I bought it after years & years of heavy use. I've had the speakers for my guitar rig for 20+ years & they sound like they did when I first bought them. I think maybe with guitar speakers that are being pushed to distortion, it's more speaker break down than break in. I would expect that to cause a change in sound. I don't think anyone is always right including me. I have seen no personal evidence of this & Jay says after years of research, he hasn't either. Some one at Eminence says it does happen. I would like to see specific measurable evidence that it does happen but they don't offer it, at least not in that article. My current bass rig uses an Eminence 12 so in 10 or 12 years I'll let you know if it changes at all. So far, after 2 years. it hasn't.
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So whose opinion am I going to believe, the largest speaker manufacturer in the world ( they did allow that page on their website so we must assume they agree) or some guy on a forum who may or may not remember how his speaker sounded 20 or 30 years ago, no offense. :)
 
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zentman said:
So whose opinion am I going to believe, the largest speaker manufacturer in the world or some guy on a forum who may or may not remember how his speaker sounded 20 or 30 years ago, no offense. :)
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How could I possibly take offense at that. You can believe whatever you want. I don't care. I KNOW what I hear. End of story.
 
notalemming said:
How could I possibly take offense at that. You can believe whatever you want. I don't care. I KNOW what I hear. End of story.
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I'm not believing what I want at all. I am choosing a page at the world's largest speaker manufacturer over a post on a forum. No belief system involved. This is not religion, it is either a fact or it isn't. I am making a choice based on data and source of data provided.

If someone presents other data that contradicts what I just read I will be forced to re-analyze and perhaps come to another conclusion. Until then, that page wins the argument.
 
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zentman said:
I'm not believing what I want at all. I am choosing a page at the world's largest speaker manufacturer over a post on a forum. No belief system involved. This is not religion, it is either a fact or it isn't. I am making a choice based on data and source of data provided.

If someone presents other data that contradicts what I just read I will be forced to re-analyze and perhaps come to another conclusion. Until then, that page wins the argument.
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What data. What facts. All I see is some guy named Big Tony that I have no idea who the *&^@($_!~! he is saying there is speaker break in LOL! It's on their "news & media" page, and big corporation never lie or mislead people do they.
 
notalemming said:
What data. What facts. All I see is some guy named Big Tony that I have no idea who the *&^@($_!~! he is saying there is speaker break in LOL! It's on their "news & media" page, and big corporation never lie or mislead people do they.
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He represents Eminence. That's why he is on their website with a whole page. We can safely assume no speaker engineer there ran over to the boss and said "Hey that Tony dude is dead wrong, we should remove that page". Why? Most likely because they agree and because the page is still there.

Give me a valid reason for them to lie about this issue. Wouldn't they be better served to say "Our speakers need no breaking in". "Guaranteed to sound as good as the day you bought them". Posting a page about breaking in speakers might serve them if they were trying to con you in to buying a speaker that sounded like crap by lying and saying it would get better.

I might suspect that if they weren't so successful. I must assume that some of that success was based on building an acceptable product. See how logic works? Occam's Razor applies here. Given the two choices presented as a reason for that page; that either their research indicates that speakers do break in or they are lying without fear of reprisal and only to increase sales of an inferior product. I will go with their research indicates it's true so they published it.
 
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Some guy saying things online, either Big Tony of Jay, hasn't led me to what I have heard over 46+ years of playing. Jay's research in this area coincides with what I have experienced over all these years. Again, you choose to "believe" something posted on Eminence's site with absolutely no facts or verifiable data to back it up. Only assumptions that since they are successful, they are right. Milli Vanilli & pet rocks were successful too! Anyway, let's just agree to disagree. That's fine with me.
 
Anthony Lucas Senior Lab Tech Phone: 502.845.5622


Call him sometime and ask why he lies on a world wide corporate website .Maybe their research is just wrong.

I will keep your testimonial in mind though, right up there with the guy on TV that swears that "Helsinki Formula" grew his hair back.

EDIT: Hey man, it's hot, my AC broke last night and the guy ain't coming until tomorrow. I'm just sitting here hot (it's 106 outside) and playing with you. Peace. It's a non-issue for me, I just dove in to debate.
 
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I never used the word "lie". Why would Jay, a well know independent designer of much higher end speakers than anything Eminence makes, lie? Tony may believe that it's true. He may have interpreted data in a skewed way per corporate wishes, interpreted it wrong, who knows. I have no idea what facts or testing he has to back it up as he doesn't offer any on their site. Maybe Eminence speakers do break in, or rather break down over time due to lesser components. I never really thought of them as hi-end speakers for the most part. The one cab I have with an Eminence sounds awful by itself but combined with another 12" cab I have it sounds great. Sorta like blending cab IRs in the Axe. I also know Jay as well as other electrical & audio engineers & designers I have met are very opinionated & feel it's their way or the highway. Seems to be common among the trade & this guy may be the same. It could be it is strictly his opinion based on no actual testing or facts, just what he feels. It would be interesting to call him to find out what he bases this on but I doubt I would actually get through to him & since there is nothing on their site to support his assertion, there may not be any. Anyway, good luck with the AC. It's been blazing hot here too! A good, vigorous, civil internet discussion never hurt anyone. Peace!
 
All I can say is, speakers aside, if anyone playing electric guitar claims their hearing is as good today as it was 20 years ago, I'd be very skeptical.
 
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axel said:
All I can say is, speakers aside, if anyone playing electric guitar claims their hearing is as good today as it was 20 years ago, I'd be very skeptical.
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My main axe is bass, playing mostly jazz, R & B & funk, so I haven't been blasted like many rock or metal players have. If anything, hearing loss, which is mostly in the higher frequencies, should make things sound warmer, right? That is what the claim is with speaker break in. I don't hear that, not with amps I had 20 years ago, or amps I have purchased in the last couple of years. I'm not saying my hearing is perfect or unaffected, but it is still pretty darn good for an old fart LOL!
 
Ned Flanders said:
And during your 40+ years of experience as a musician, you probably did a lot of controlled testing that ruled out the plethora of alternative explanations and resulting misattributions of causes and effects, right?
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Nope

But I Did Stay at a Holiday Inn Express Hotel once.
 
Speakers don't need breaking in if someone has already broke them in for you before you buy them, that's about it.
Other than that, youre on your own. There's no quick route either. My experience is its best for the user to break them in using their own gear and their tones at sound pressures they will be used at.
Some break in real quickly, some take eons (in my world EV12L takes many hours).

To respond to the original post, sometimes your ears can play tricks.
I have a trusty 2x12 cab that I've had for years loaded with a pair of T75 Celestions. Recently one blew and I replaced it with another from the same era that had hardly any hours on it. The difference was quite incredible at first, but after about 5 gigs the two speakers were sounding much closer.
 
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Carol-AnnAmps said:
Speakers don't need breaking in if someone has already broke them in for you before you buy them, that's about it.
Other than that, youre on your own. There's no quick route either. My experience is its best for the user to break them in using their own gear and their tones at sound pressures they will be used at.
Some break in real quickly, some take eons (in my world EV12L takes many hours).
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Evs are a bitch --

The Lead 80's you recommended a while back to me for the R combo broke in much faster. Great speaker by the way -- loved that speaker..
 
While I don't believe that speakers REQUIRE break-in they definitely change after they've been used a while. It should be readily apparent why this is so. Speakers use a mechanical suspension. Any mechanical suspension will become more compliant after use. If the suspension changes, the sound of the speaker changes.

I actually witnessed the change in one of my reference cabinets. I bought it new and the MEASURED resonant frequency and IR changed drastically from the first use to what it is today. Most of the change occurred in the first few weeks. Now this is a guitar speaker and I don't know if PA speakers as used in FRFR monitors exhibit the same behavior.
 
The argument of speaker break in fact or fiction has gone on for decades. I can only go on what I have dealt with personally and I haven't heard any difference with speakers I have owned. I have done several tests (nothing scientific) and saw no difference. In one such instance I had two sets of high end headphones where the manufacturer even suggested a break in period. We broke one pair in for 3 times the length they recommended (1 month) and then compared to the pair we did no break in. We blind tested with over 10 people and nobody could accurately tell a difference. I blew one of my Adam A7s after 6 months and got a replacement. You would think they would sound different no? Not so. But that is just my personal experience.

I have read a lot on the subject and the one comment I kept seeing repeated in many articles both pro and con that I found interesting was that in scientific measurements they found more variance in speaker to speaker build with the same speakers than they did with any break in period of them. So while there may be a break in period where everything is settling in etc it is very minimal. Maybe the golden ears guys hear this more than average ole me. :)
 
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FractalAudio said:
While I don't believe that speakers REQUIRE break-in they definitely change after they've been used a while. It should be readily apparent why this is so. Speakers use a mechanical suspension. Any mechanical suspension will become more compliant after use. If the suspension changes, the sound of the speaker changes.

I actually witnessed the change in one of my reference cabinets. I bought it new and the MEASURED resonant frequency and IR changed drastically from the first use to what it is today. Most of the change occurred in the first few weeks. Now this is a guitar speaker and I don't know if PA speakers as used in FRFR monitors exhibit the same behavior.
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With a guitar speaker the changes I hear are most noticeable in the higher frequencies.
The higher the power and level of doping the more noticeable over time those changes are.
As you say Cliff, its clear that changes are probably due to the motor itself and the physical resistance of the cone.
With a PA, hi-if or studio reference speaker those higher frequencies are taken care of by a seperate HF driver that's much smaller. I think that in itself would make any HF differences much less noticeable.
Just a theory.....
 
My speakers sound different in every venue. Way more different than changes over a "break-in" period I suspect, but they probably changed then as well :lol
 
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