getting dirty background note on clean amps

[merlin17]

Scott. there is some clipping in your clip (interesting word combination...).
Yek's clip is clean.

Why do you all track with so hot levels?

 

[frankiev]

Thats not really an issue except for the difference between clean and distorted patches.

Use level to match amp block to bypassed level. Check for clipping on cleanest patch, then adjust all other patches amp level according to this one. Do it at *gig level*.

Sorry for the late reply .why is it important to match the amp block to the bypassed level . In bypass mode its guitar direct to power amp.The power amp is supposed to see preamp level signals not guitar level signals

 

[DNW]

I have heard something like this some time before, but I tried recreating it last night (albeit, only for about 10 minutes at 1am) and couldn't get it happening again. Like frankiev, it only happened for me when I'd really dig in. Pretty sure it was happening for me on the Blackface, as that's the clean amp I used most back then.

From memory it would happen with any of my guitars, all passive Dimarzio or SD pickups except for the Strat (which is just the stock passives), input level set correctly, output not clipping, no sample rate setting problem as my monitor chain for the Axe-FX bypasses the interface entirely (and I go into the interface from the analogue outs anyway), etc. etc.


If I can get to the end of the day without throwing myself out the office window, I'll try have another shot at it tonight.

 

[frankiev]

Thanks for the input . How did you resolve it ? Did you have better luck with a different amp ?

 

[Scott Peterson]

Frankiev,

I downloaded and played with your preset.

Some thoughts: your preset is basically stock. On my rig, I had to turn the level down to -8.5 to keep it from clipping the output of my Axe-FX when I hit hard on the guitar. I also turned off the noise gate. I did not get any type of distortion, overdrive, ringing or weirdness whatsoever once I did those changes.

How high do you run your output knob on the front of the Axe-FX? Are you clipping the output of the Axe-FX when you hear the bad noise?

 

[DNW]

Thanks for the input . How did you resolve it ? Did you have better luck with a different amp ?

I didn't resolve it as such. I noticed it quite some time ago, but as I said I rarely use tones that clean anyway. I generally use mid to high gain type things, and for cleaner tones I'll usually roll back the guitar volume on a mid gain setting. So it wasn't really resolved, more just that I was pissing about at the time when I heard it, and then just moved on back to my normal kinds of tones. :lol:


Last night I was using the Shiva clean (which the Axe didn't have back when I heard the weird noises). Basically I fired up my Axe, it was sitting on a Shiva LD patch, so it was convenient to just switch it to the clean and tweak a few settings. Tried it with the master way up and the drive set to give a clean sound and then a slightly broken up sound, but I didn't hear anything odd either way. I use a fairly dark IR mix as well on that patch, so the presence and treble were both up fairly high.

Nothing in my set up has changed as such, although last night I was playing a guitar that I wouldn't have owned back then. That said, it's basically the one guitar in my bunch that isn't set up well. The rest are all buzz free, I don't play with super low action, pickups aren't too close to the strings, etc. etc.

But yeah, last night was far from a thorough test. It was more a 1am "fire up the laptop to check emails and stuff before I go to bed, see this thread again and decide to see if I can quickly recreate the noise while the Axe is right next to me" type thing.

 

[DNW]

Well, I've tried again, but I can't seem to get that sound again. Only thing that has really changed since then and now as far as I can tell is the Axe's firmware. Same guitars with the same setups and pickups, same cables, same monitors, etc. :|

 

[Smilzo]

why is it important to match the amp block to the bypassed level . In bypass mode its guitar direct to power amp.The power amp is supposed to see preamp level signals not guitar level signals

Frankiev,
On my rig, I had to turn the level down to -8.5 to keep it from clipping the output of my Axe-FX when I hit hard on the guitar.

Experience. If every block maintain (almost) a unity gain, then I am pretty sure there will be no digital/analog clipping anywhere.
You're right about power amp needs preamp level: indeed, you set the master high. We are talkink about "virtual preamp" and "virtual poweramp". Once the whole signal step trhu your chain, pass trhu DAC, then the signal is slammed up to "real preamp" level.

Try turning down level as Scott suggested. Turn up analog output level to match previous volume, if needed. Be aware that I have had similar problem long ago, I wrote to assistance: in the end it turn out to be input clipping of my audio interface... too strong signal from Axefx.

 

[frankiev]

Smilzo.DNW thanks so much for your help .
Scott, Im playing at bedroom levels so the outputs are way down ,maybe 9 oclock . As far as output clipping no visual red lights come on .Maybe Im right at the edge . Ill try it with the output at-8.5 at lunch today and see . Thanks for your efforts

 

[Scott Peterson]

Smilzo.DNW thanks so much for your help .
Scott, Im playing at bedroom levels so the outputs are way down ,maybe 9 oclock . As far as output clipping no visual red lights come on .Maybe Im right at the edge . Ill try it with the output at-8.5 at lunch today and see . Thanks for your efforts

I am surprised to read that. My neck pickup is a WCR SR single coil and not particularly hot in terms of output at all; it was blasting your preset into clipping even on the lightest touches here.

Just so you know, I like to set up the Axe-FX to run with the physical output volume pot (on the front of the box) at noon.

 

[frankiev]

So if I understand correctly you set your output at 1200 and adjust your levels using the preset output level?

 

[Smilzo]

Just so you know, I like to set up the Axe-FX to run with the physical output volume pot (on the front of the box) at noon.

Me too. I give signal to PA with out level at 12:00, so I can tweak volume on the fly in both senses...

Frankiev, are you sure you: a) are using front input and b) analog front input as source?

 

[Scott Peterson]

So if I understand correctly you set your output at 1200 and adjust your levels using the preset output level?

As Smilzo notes - yes. So onstage I can raise or lower output as needed on the fly with the hardware knob. I normally end up right about at noon on the hardware volume knob at most shows; Cliff has noted (long ago on the old forum) that this is the preferred way to run the Axe-FX for gain-staging your signal from the hardware.

I equalize my preset volumes using the output 'level' setting on the amp block. You can also do this in the 'output' block, but I find it easier and faster to do it in the amp block.

 

[yek]

So if I understand correctly you set your output at 1200 and adjust your levels using the preset output level?

As Smilzo notes - yes. So onstage I can raise or lower output as needed. I normally end up right about at noon on the hardware volume knob at most shows; Cliff has noted (long ago on the old forum) that this is the preferred way to run the Axe-FX for gain-staging your signal from the hardware.

I equalize my preset volumes using the output 'level' setting on the amp block. You can also do this in the 'output' block, but I find it easier and faster to do it in the amp block.

+1

 

[FractalAudio]

The other possibility is that you are clipping at the output and given Scott's comments that sounds most plausible. Brief excursions into clipping may not light the clip LED long enough to be noticeable but can be audible. There is a hard limiter prior to D/A conversion that prevents wrap-around but if your preset is too hot you can hit that limiter which will sound nasty.

As a rule of thumb, a preset shouldn't clip regardless of the pickups used. If you plug in a hotter guitar and the output clips then your amp block output level is too high.

 

[yek]

The other possibility is that you are clipping at the output and given Scott's comments that sounds most plausible. Brief excursions into clipping may not light the clip LED long enough to be noticeable but can be audible. There is a hard limiter prior to D/A conversion that prevents wrap-around but if your preset is too hot you can hit that limiter which will sound nasty.

As a rule of thumb, a preset shouldn't clip regardless of the pickups used. If you plug in a hotter guitar and the output clips then your amp block output level is too high.

Didn't know that. Good to know. Wiki'd:

http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index. ... d_clipping.

 

[frankiev]

Wow I feel like I had a small fire and the fire dept,police,and national guard showed up to put it out . Thanks to everyone for the help .This forum and the people here are the best

 

[Dutch]

I equalize my preset volumes using the output 'level' setting on the amp block. You can also do this in the 'output' block, but I find it easier and faster to do it in the amp block.

Right on. That's where most of the volume differences originate anyway, so that's where they should be handled.
Same goes for drive blocks of course. Treat those things at the source and you won't run into troubles down the line.


I usually run at quite a bit below max level anyway. Amp block level can be down at -20 dB or even less. My main clean tone sets the volume level at about 6 dB below clipping the output. Since that has way higher peaks and less 'meat' than overdriven tones it needs to be the yardstick for the whole thing and overdriven tones are set to a similar volume by ear.
I turn it up at the front panel knob which I usually have at noon too. It's still easily enough juice to drive the poweramp into the red.

 

[Smilzo]

Thanks to everyone for the help .This forum and the people here are the best

I will be happy when you told us you have solved your problem!
Another note: I use a midi CC to boost global level, that is digital level before ADC. When I set patches, I activate boost and look for clipping or bad sound, by setting amp block level.
I prefer to have a bit of wasted level when it comes to digital convertion.

Another reason to strive for unity amp block gain: you can globally bypass amps block. I have done it at least a couple of time, usign Axefx as multifx in a rig without tweaking too much. If your amp block level is inconsistent, you will have to compensate for it in another block, so when you bypass block you experience jump of level from patch to patch. My patches worked almost flawless. :mrgreen:

 

[frankiev]

I didnt have a chance to check last night but I feel confident that the level being too high is the issue . Ill check a little later today
Just to clarify ,when you say you boost the global level are you referring to the output level in the amp section or the main output level of the preset ?