G3 modeling thread

Hey Dpoirier, now I've seen everything - someone bashing someone else who simply requests more OPTIONS in TONE. Did you read all of my post? G3 I'm sure will be the highlight of my entire year! I'm all about OPTIONS in sounds when it comes to mixing though. I'll throw up 30 guitar tracks that are tweaked with the slightest differences, all playing the same thing and mute through them all in the context of a the mix and then meticulously choose the best ones for that particular mix. Let's say I have a layered fuzz tone and can scroll back & forth between 17 & 18...so your saying that there's no way FW17 can be better in certain mixing situations? Wouldn't it be cool to compare instantly? Or maybe when creating your patches you just play with just your guitar, NO MIX? Are you always just assuming the newest FW is ALWAYS better in every situation? Are you not concerned about quality on EVERY mixing decision? Well, I am. And having OPTIONS are key, my friend.

Also, just simply asking for options in tone is not a bad thing, and the convenience of doing this instantly would be beneficial to me. Best mixing decisions come when your in the moment and taking the time to reload FW17 then 18 then 17 then 18...well it wouldn't be as cool for the way I work. Anyway, it was just a simple request that I don't expect to happen, but I have three Axe Fx II's so I could just leave one with FW17 in case something does happen to sound better IN THE MIX with FW17. Either way, as I always say, thanks Soooo much much Cliff for the continuous improvements! I'll stop requesting anything else since Dpoirier, Neelfy, and Yek interpret this as 'complaining'.
If I was anymore excited about FW18 my head would EXPLODE!
 
Why not just go into it believing in Cliff and the team to put out the best product to date, which should in theory negate anyone's needs to revert back to FW17 for anything ?

As I mentioned before, if Cliff said the stipulation for FW18/G3 was that if I chose to install I could never revert back, I'd still go for it without a single reservation. I've been with Fractal for 11 major FW revisions so far and each and every one has gotten better and better.

The man is simply NOT going to put out a new update unless it sounds good. Have we ever known Cliff to do that ? To say "sorry guys, I kind of got lazy and didn't really get this one right, you all probably will be happier with the current FW". Never going to happen I don't think.

Was FW13 or 14 a great sounding product ? You bet, but would I ever want to go back to it after using 17 ? Not on your life! Only direct to move is forward
 
Slightly de-railing, but not necessarily: one might wonder when the component cost of the XL will come down to that of the Mark II, and then will they discontinue the latter?
 
Phill is a sheer genious in taking nearly every component out of all the old tube-amps and converting them each into a digitized piece of a computirized knob.
From my POV too many.
G3 will maybe blend a lot of those into a lesser crowd, making it simpler to dial in the tone you want. And with a better result.
 
I'm ready to move forward. I have never not liked an upgrade. To my ears, they have always sounded good. I think the biggest thing is I've locked in a plan and approach to this stuff and I'm not dependent on a lot of advanced tweaks, particularly in the amp block. Maybe that's where people get out of whack and I can understand that. If I need EQ, I do that outside of the amp block. At present I'm doing that in the cab block via the other thread on live stuff (80 on the low end and cutting above 14K on the high end). If I were using a power amp and real cab, I'd just use a PEQ to shape. For the most part, I think if you've built your philosophy around heavy tweaking of the amp block then any FW upgrade is going to cause some heartburn. I have had to adjust some things over time but I can get there real quick. The ONLY thing I touch on the amp block nowadays other than the standard TMB and Presence are the speaker settings to match up best with the virtual speaker I'm pairing.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Why not just go into it believing in Cliff and the team to put out the best product to date, which should in theory negate anyone's needs to revert back to FW17 for anything ?

As I mentioned before, if Cliff said the stipulation for FW18/G3 was that if I chose to install I could never revert back, I'd still go for it without a single reservation. I've been with Fractal for 11 major FW revisions so far and each and every one has gotten better and better.

The man is simply NOT going to put out a new update unless it sounds good. Have we ever known Cliff to do that ? To say "sorry guys, I kind of got lazy and didn't really get this one right, you all probably will be happier with the current FW". Never going to happen I don't think.

Was FW13 or 14 a great sounding product ? You bet, but would I ever want to go back to it after using 17 ? Not on your life! Only direct to move is forward
Click to expand...

I have a lot of faith in Cliff and his team's genius, and I'm sure G3 will be amazing. However, just to pose a counter-argument, MIMIC was a "direct move forward' and yet, it has the ability to be turned on and off for people who want the option. Just my two cents...
 
I thought this thread was about amazing new technology and not really a wish list thread. I almost believe that if our wives brought us this amazing dinner she had fixed and didn't use our favorite brand of butter we would be outside banging our heads on the sidewalk while screaming - why oh why :p
 
Can't wait the moment... when all this words (mine too) will became mute leaves in the wind... and the G3 will come out! :lol
 
lqdsnddist, do you understand the concept of 'OPTIONS'? Of course I trust the new FW will be better! But maybe in 1 out of 10 cases in a mix FW 17 might sound better. Maybe FW17 layered with FW18 is 'BEST' for a certain track. Your limiting yourself by saying, "Ah Firmware 18 is the ONLY way to go now because it's the newest and uses G3 which is better than G2, there's no need to ever look back!"
I believe in infinite possibilities when creating a mix, so creating as many options available as possible is key. It's all about being creative and options make the creative process thrive. Your music is not as good as it could be if you are limiting your options (please don't interpret this as my music is 'better' than yours as I don't mean this to be an insult). I'm just simply saying that if you are creating a mix and have instant access to FW17 as well as 18, your mix has a greater chance to sound better because you have more OPTIONS. You might have a guitar with certain weird pickups that works better with 17, while your other guitars work better with 18. Maybe a few amps sound better in 17 matched with certain ir's in a particular part of a mix. Options man, options(in my Wooderson voice).
Once again I go back to the convenience factor of how it would be nice to switch instantly between the two firmwares like you could with FW7,8,9...I have no issues if 18 is all you will ever need and you have no reason to ever look back, but you need to understand that some people might find occasional use the "older" options as part of their tone palette, and those options are completely legitimate.

I guess instead of "Out with the old, in with the New" like you might say, I would say "Still have the old, Bring on the NEW!!"
I really don't understand how some people don't understand the concept of having more Options is actually a good thing. Maybe they don't understand the concept of 'IN the MIX' and are dialing their tone in strictly with just the guitar up, with no concept of other instruments/voices.
I believe Cliff has a concept of Endless Possibilities with the Axe Fx, and in this thread he even said just because FW 17 will be old doesn't mean it's bad.
 
Last edited:
NeoSound said:
I thought this thread was about amazing new technology and not really a wish list thread. I almost believe that if our wives brought us this amazing dinner she had fixed and didn't use our favorite brand of butter we would be outside banging our heads on the sidewalk while screaming - why oh why :p
Click to expand...

It's not. But with impending FW, the frenzy builds so we need a thread like this. It's always filled with 'wish list' kind of items ('Did you add the controller on modifier daisy chain across scenes that will be tied to my gyroscope in my phone in my pocket, so it changes from phaser to flanger when I do a backflip on stage?') Yes, I'm kidding. Point is everyone's pet desired feature pops into these threads. 'Tis a good thing (even when noses get a bit bruised here and there...)

Call it 'blowing off steam'.

R
 
electronpirate said:
It's not. But with impending FW, the frenzy builds so we need a thread like this. It's always filled with 'wish list' kind of items ('Did you add the controller on modifier daisy chain across scenes that will be tied to my gyroscope in my phone in my pocket, so it changes from phaser to flanger when I do a backflip on stage?') Yes, I'm kidding. Point is everyone's pet desired feature pops into these threads. 'Tis a good thing (even when noses get a bit bruised here and there...)

Call it 'blowing off steam'.

R
Click to expand...

:O

WANT!
 
luke said:
Thereby defeating the purpose of scenes?

The natural evolution of scenes was more stuff per preset.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying about the scenes, I had to go through the 7 steps of grief to finally hit acceptance, on doing it per song go forward. I really enjoyed having my whole Effects chain in my preset. It just wasn't realistically going to happen, with the change of Stereo Ultra res, and Hi end Reverb, plus hi end preamp in the Cab block, just wasn't going to happen. On the flip side doing a preset by song, I still use scenes, knowing that I would never use a flanger, chorus, tremelo in one song. And if I did I would use lo res for everything. I have been getting more compliments about my sound lately from people, that don't even play guitar, so that is a positive.

I want better everything, even at the cost of CPU. To me this is my competitive advantage, no one sounds like me in my little world, and I like that. I used a Fas class a with pitch> plex detune yesterday, and it was heavenly.
 
i personally find it strange that different firmware is being used as a tool for different sounds.

i just can't imagine a situation like

"hey let's double track this one"

"ooh do you want to use a sound that's less dynamic and less amp like for the double?"

"great idea!"

17.04 is great. it's the best ever. i love it. i can't imagine it being better. with G3's release, i'm assuming it will be more dynamic, "feel" better, and should sound a bit different from 17.04. but if i need a different sound, i wouldn't think of loading old firmware. i'd use an EQ, or change the amp or cab, something like that.

maybe that's a bit traditional. but to me, axe firmware is NOT like using an old marshall head vs a new marshall head for different tone.

if it works for you, cool. do it. if old firmware is the fastest way to a certain sound or tonality, then downgrade and get what you need. but if keeping old firmware in there along with the new means memory usage keeping us from other new things, i personally would not want old stuff in there.

didn't the "firmware version select" get removed for many different reasons? i can't see why it would return.

to me, firmware isn't tone. it's a collection of options and parameters that have certain attributes. generally, older firmware has limitations compared to newer. plus, there are SO many amps in this thing now, if a mark iv doesn't work, i try something else. even if i wanted a mark iv. i hear they do that in the studio with real amps ya know... :)
 
Last edited:
iaresee said:
This isn't true. Vinyl certainly has physical limitations to what it can reproduce. The RIAA curve exists specifically because vinyl has physical limitations and information needs to be stripped out before it's saved on vinyl for later reading-back. Vinyl is absolutely lossy; information needs to be stripped away before it can be stored on a record.
Click to expand...
EQ isn't lossiness.


iaresee said:
The data-stripping techniques behind MP3 psycho-acoustic "lossy" compression and the RIAA curve follow the same theory: that you can't hear it, so not having it there doesn't make a difference.
Click to expand...
They follow very different theories. The RIAA curve involves dialing down certain frequencies with the intention of restoring them later using a complementary EQ curve. MP3's lossiness involves throwing away information with no intention of ever restoring it.
 
rcd said:
lqdsnddist, do you understand the concept of 'OPTIONS'? Of course I trust the new FW will be better! But maybe in 1 out of 10 cases in a mix FW 17 might sound better. Maybe FW17 layered with FW18 is 'BEST' for a certain track. Your limiting yourself by saying, "Ah Firmware 18 is the ONLY way to go now because it's the newest and uses G3 which is better than G2, there's no need to ever look back!"
I believe in infinite possibilities when creating a mix, so creating as many options available as possible is key. It's all about being creative and options make the creative process thrive. Your music is not as good as it could be if you are limiting your options (please don't interpret this as my music is 'better' than yours as I don't mean this to be an insult). I'm just simply saying that if you are creating a mix and have instant access to FW17 as well as 18, your mix has a greater chance to sound better because you have more OPTIONS. You might have a guitar with certain weird pickups that works better with 17, while your other guitars work better with 18. Maybe a few amps sound better in 17 matched with certain ir's in a particular part of a mix. Options man, options(in my Wooderson voice).
Once again I go back to the convenience factor of how it would be nice to switch instantly between the two firmwares like you could with FW7,8,9...I have no issues if 18 is all you will ever need and you have no reason to ever look back, but you need to understand that some people might find occasional use the "older" options as part of their tone palette, and those options are completely legitimate.

I guess instead of "Out with the old, in with the New" like you might say, I would say "Still have the old, Bring on the NEW!!"
I really don't understand how some people don't understand the concept of having more Options is actually a good thing. Maybe they don't understand the concept of 'IN the MIX' and are dialing their tone in strictly with just the guitar up, with no concept of other instruments/voices.
I believe Cliff has a concept of Endless Possibilities with the Axe Fx, and in this thread he even said just because FW 17 will be old doesn't mean it's bad.
Click to expand...


Of course I understand the concept of options, but only as far as when an option exist between two equal, but different, choices.

I owned a KPA and the Axe for a while, and those gave me options (though I ended up selling the KPA and sticking with the Axe). I also owned a L6 POD at one point, which I certainly didn't keep after getting the Axe, because frankly, it wasn't an option. There never was a time when I thought hmmm, what will sound better on this track, the Axe or the L6 POD. The Axe simply slayed the L6 in every possible way, so there really wasn't an option.

I've never been using FW17.04 and thought hmmm, wonder if I will get a better tone if I reinstall FW15 again. Doesn't matter if its at the press of a button, or I have to go and manually do it via Fractal Bot, its never been a thought that crossed my mind.

Picking an IR to use with a given amp model ? Option

Going back in an older firmware ? Not something I view as an option.


I'll be the first to admit that older movies, older guitar effects pedals et al., are often subjectively better/cooler than today's offerings, but when it comes to Axe Fx firmware, older does not equal better in my book. Cliff keeps improving things each and every time. There is no desire to use a "vintage" FW because it sounds better.

If you want to go back to FW17 you can do it pretty easily. Maybe will take 3 minutes with FractalBot instead of just a press of a switch, but I think you'll be in the minority as far as wanting that feature, and not that your opinion doesn't matter, but it seems unlikely to add a feature like that if perhaps only one person wants it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom