FW11 - Having Low End Problems - where is it?

if the same patch with the same settings sounds great through an ir and monitors, it's obviously not a fw issue. it's a setting issue or a problem with the power amp/cab.
 
I noticed the less bass, more highs, too, on the FW11 presets. If you load the FW10 bank A presets into bank B, and FW 11 bank A into A, you can see the settings are different on FW11, usually with less bass, higher presence, different cabs, etc. At least on the two presets I compared, Plexi Treble and Recto Vintage. After setting these two FW10 presets to match the FW11 presets, they sound pretty much the same, maybe a slight difference due to FW versions.

And the new Axe-edit makes it so easy! Thanks, Fractal!
 
Here's my 2¢.

I loaded up fw 11 and my favorite Trainwreck preset sounded really thin. I noticed that on the AMP EQ page, the first slider (80 Hz) was all the way down. I then set the amp block to another block and then back to the original (Wrecker 1). It immediately sounded close to what it was supposed to (like it was on fw 11 beta). I noticed that the mid and bright switches were set to off (they were on before I reset it) and a couple things were slightly different (depth, thunk, xfmr match), but the on the EQ page, everything was set to flat. I think this is chiefly why it sounded good again.

SO... I fired up Fractal Bot, reloaded fw11 from scratch. Verified that my preset sounded thin again. I then restored the preset from a backup on my computer. Sounded thin also. I reset it as before, by switching amp type to another one and back again. Same result - slight differences, flat on the EQ page, and sounded pretty good.

This led me to believe this has to do with the AMP EQ page. In the past there were instances when I would dump the first slider all the way down, but I don't remember it being 80Hz. I remember it being 63Hz or something like that. (I could be insane. I don't know, as I can't find an old screenshot). I would drop it all the way down to the bottom to control the low end by cutting out frequencies that I want none of. At any rate, once I put 80Hz back up to flat (or even a couple dB less than flat), it sounded good. So, again, this leads me to believe it has something to do with the updates to the EQ. I have no idea, but I'm happy because I know the first thing to check if my old presets sound thin. YMMV

tl;dr
Check the AMP EQ page!
 
Can an power amp have weak low end/bass. I know it shouldn't effect it unless there was some sort of hi pass/low pass filter/crossover or some sort of shelving eq in the amp, but I have an old power amp that allways sounds thin with no bottom end. Any ideas?
 
I found that Hot Kitty though the Hot Kitty mix bumps around a lot. There is something weird and infrasonic going on there that I can feel rather than hear.
 
After some more playing and tweaking I guess the changes in the lows are also caused by a different compression. Something can be solved by tweaking the eq, but there's also some ooomph missing, something that eqs can't add, it's a dynamic thing.

With 11b the compression had been much more noticable, wich also means a felt boost of the lows.
Maybe there is something that 11b had and got changed in 11rc?
Especially when your vol pot on the guitar is not all the way up you might get a thinner tone and there a little compression can make a big difference by making these lows louder.
We got to play a bit with the new compression related knobs of the cathode follower circuit, maybe some of the lows are there?
 
A big boost in 80 range messes things up for the bass player. Sounds good alone though ;)

Set Global eq 1 for FOH, XLR (Cut lowest)
Set Global eq 2 for you amp/cab. (Boost whatever you want/need)

And put the FX loop in the grid before the cab/ir.

IMO FW11 sounds great and sits very well in the mix. Really good balanced eq. Sweeter top end and the new 5-band amp eq made a difference. There was quite a difference between pre/eq/pa and amp/eq/cab.

But i go FRFR. Haven`t tried my Mesa poweramp and cab for a long time.
 
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If you want, you could boost bass before the FX loop so it would affect only your stage tone and leave FOH alone. Or use the out2 global eq.
 
82 Hz seems unlikely low for a 2-12 cab resonance.
I'm not sure but your cab but my fender 2-12 resonates
around 110-120 Hz. I messured the minimum current frequenzy.


Karl Houseknecht said:
Running into a power amp and cab (recto 2x12). Real amps into this cab have a good deal of low end going on, the good kind. Most of the amp models I've tried in FW11 sound thin. No real low end interaction. What am I missing?

Dialed in the patch from scratch after updating to FW11.

And I have changed the Low Freq parameter in the amp to 82.4, which is the resonance frequency of the cab which I found by doing the filter procedure. Unmistakable. Doesn't seem to make any difference.
Click to expand...
 
Tried FW11b yesterday in combination with a power amp and guitar cab. (FW11c got released when the rehearsal started :( )
Sounded thin and had to boost 80/125/250 Hz and then it sounded great.
Will check some more...

Edit:
Mark IV sim in combination with the 5-band EQ.
Power amp is Mesa 20:20 and cab is a cheap Hughes and Kettner 4x12. Sub optimal but this shouldn't make THAT much difference.
 
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CyrielLenting said:
Tried FW11b yesterday in combination with a power amp and guitar cab. (FW11c got released when the rehearsal started :( )
Sounded thin and had to boost 80/125/250 Hz and then it sounded great.
Will check some more...

Edit:
Mark IV sim in combination with the 5-band EQ.
Power amp is Mesa 20:20 and cab is a cheap Hughes and Kettner 4x12. Sub optimal but this shouldn't make THAT much difference.
Click to expand...

A bad cab can make a Rolls Royce amp sound like crap... It at least 50% of your sound.
 
Kriig said:
A bad cab can make a Rolls Royce amp sound like crap... It at least 50% of your sound.
Click to expand...

Hmm, maybe it could be the crappy cab. The thing was suboptimal when it left the store and then got highly abused by many bands...
I will bring my own Mesa Rectifier 4x12 next rehearsal so I can pin point the issue as bit more.
Damn I miss my old rehearsal room... Currently busy with building a new one that will only be used by us :D
 
Kriig said:
A big boost in 80 range messes things up for the bass player.
...
But i go FRFR. Haven`t tried my Mesa poweramp and cab for a long time.
Click to expand...

I know, and this is why it bothers me. My low end with my real amps sounded just fine in the band mix, and yet there was that thump and response that just isn't there for me with the Axe right now. 10.12 is better. This all started after 11.0.

Thomas Larsson said:
82 Hz seems unlikely low for a 2-12 cab resonance.
I'm not sure but your cab but my fender 2-12 resonates
around 110-120 Hz. I messured the minimum current frequenzy.
Click to expand...

I used Cliff's method of placing a Filter block after the amp model, setting it to peaking with a Q of 5 and a boost of 10dB, and then swept it through 60Hz up to 120Hz whist chugging. 82.4 Hz popped out big time. HUGE resonance. There was no mistaking it. Keep in mind, this is a 212 vertical slant rectifier cab. Closed back. Of course your open backed Fender 212 is going to resonate much higher.

Kriig said:
A bad cab can make a Rolls Royce amp sound like crap... It at least 50% of your sound.
Click to expand...

Problem here is the my cab seems to make any amp I put through it sound amazing. Best cab I've ever owned.
 
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Is there anyone except Yek who is happy with the low end using FW11 with poweramp/cab? I use FRFR but I'm thinking of trying it with amp/cab.

Karl are you having this same problem using FW11b?
 
willowdale said:
Is there anyone except Yek who is happy with the low end using FW11 with poweramp/cab? I use FRFR but I'm thinking of trying it with amp/cab.

Karl are you having this same problem using FW11b?
Click to expand...

I didn't get to try 11b in a band context or with my poweramp and cab. Just direct. 10.12 was better in this regard, but it still required a bit of a low end boost to make that interaction happen.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I know, and this is why it bothers me. My low end with my real amps sounded just fine in the band mix, and yet there was that thump and response that just isn't there for me with the Axe right now. 10.12 is better. This all started after 11.0.



I used Cliff's method of placing a Filter block after the amp model, setting it to peaking with a Q of 5 and a boost of 10dB, and then swept it through 60Hz up to 120Hz whist chugging. 82.4 Hz popped out big time. HUGE resonance. There was no mistaking it. Keep in mind, this is a 212 vertical slant rectifier cab. Closed back. Of course your open backed Fender 212 is going to resonate much higher.



Problem here is the my cab seems to make any amp I put through it sound amazing. Best cab I've ever owned.
Click to expand...

Your cab is fine. Recto cabs are great. Have you tried to play loud? Just to see if the thump comes with volum.. Mesa Lonestar is a little like that. Louder=more punch in the low end.

Have you tried it with the band?

I can hear that there is less lows, but (to my taste) more balanced. But again, i`m on FRFR system so i don`t apply. Hope you find your sweetspot again Karl.
 
I haven't tried 11.0 with the band yet. And yes, there is MORE thump at higher volume levels, but they'd kill me if I played that loud.

I'm going to do a little more investigation through a quality FRFR solution later today and report back. I have no doubt the low end sounds good there. I've always thought there was too much lows going direct, and cutting those out a bit makes sense. I just feel like maybe addressing that problem in this release took away what real cab users like.
 
I've allways had to work at taming lows with FR , 11.0 seems to have balanced this out very well!!! From my experience so far it's allways been a factor when amp and cab are good 'FR has way too much lows! I just figured it was the nature of IR's and allways have been curious why they are bottom heavy. For me the FR solution is the only way to go so I'm loving it!!!
 
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