FW11 - Having Low End Problems - where is it?

It's pretty normal to hear less lows at low volume from a cab than at higher volume.
Depends also on the cabinet construction and speaker.

Recently I got a Port City 2x12. Best cab I've used so far for quality sound at lower volume.
Two different speakers in it, so I'm not even using LFR adjustment.

Advice: if you're going to run through a power amp and speaker cab, dial in the amp for that setup. Then adjust (Cab block) for FRFR. Not vice versa.
 
yek said:
Advice: if you're going to run through a power amp and speaker cab, dial in the amp for that setup. Then adjust (Cab block) for FRFR. Not vice versa.
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This is why I like and appreciate your posts, Yek. You give actual advice instead of blaming the user, the user's ears, gear, or experience.

So you're saying to dial in the amp model to sound good through the poweramp and cab, and THEN adjust the IR send to the FOH to sound good? Can you give me some tips on what you've done to accomplish that? In other words, how what adjustments to you make to the cab block, or elsewhere, to optimize the FRFR signal?
 
hmmmm...just for shits and giggles,
i took one of my presets, disabled the cab block and turned off the power amp sim and plugged it into my dsl effects return.
surprised to say that i, too, am experiencing a much brighter and tinnier tone than what i remember with fw10.
with the fw10, i remember being able to do just the above and get a much oomphier tone.
will find time this weekend to tinker with it again..
 
alan said:
after i updated FW11 , the out 1 clip will light on when i play .. whats the problem ?
Click to expand...

Turn down volume on all patches separatly

OR turn down volum in GLOBAL EQ 1 (slider too the far right)
If you do the global thing you adhust volum for all the patches at once.

If the patches have delay, check level on the delay block. It should be 0dB in series/below 50%mix.

Level over 0dB/below 50%mix, boost the overall signal when the delay is engaged.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I used Cliff's method of placing a Filter block after the amp model, setting it to peaking with a Q of 5 and a boost of 10dB, and then swept it through 60Hz up to 120Hz whist chugging. 82.4 Hz popped out big time.
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82.4 Hz just happens to be the frequency of the low E note (in normal tuning). Coincidence? I think not.

Try running through all the low notes (chugging) chromatically from the low E up to the E octave above. Or play noise through the cab and use the filter sweep trick on that.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
This is why I like and appreciate your posts, Yek. You give actual advice instead of blaming the user, the user's ears, gear, or experience.

So you're saying to dial in the amp model to sound good through the poweramp and cab, and THEN adjust the IR send to the FOH to sound good? Can you give me some tips on what you've done to accomplish that? In other words, how what adjustments to you make to the cab block, or elsewhere, to optimize the FRFR signal?
Click to expand...

I used to run amp/cab on stage and run an FRFR signal direct to FOH when I was using the Standard. I did what Yek is suggesting, creating all of my patches with running through the amp and cab. Then what I did was mic that with a 57 and record it. This was now my reference that I always went back too for comparisons. Then I auditioned IR's until I found something that sounded close to the real cab. After that, I never needed to go back and check the direct signal. it always seemed to work as long as a dialed in on the amp/cab at volume.

Some people would suggest to just shoot an IR of your cab at that point, which would also make sense. At the time I was doing this with the Standard, it wasn't as easy to make your own IR unless you knew what you were doing. It really didn't take long to audition the IR's as long as I was systematic about it. In my case it was a Marshall cab with Greenbacks and a 57. I just ran through anything in that variety until I was close. IMHO - If your IR isn't in the ballpark of your real cab, you will always be compromising and second guessing. That's the only way I could make running both ways to work

FYI - I never messed with the EQ. I always did trial and error until the IR itself was close. I did end up boosting a bit of 110 at one point, but that's when I switched to a 2x12 cab that was sitting off of the floor on a milk crate. Having the cab off the floor was making the low end disappear, and I had to compensate for it. It took me a bit to figure out that one. I could never figure out why the 4x12 flat on the floor had more bottom end than the 2x12 off the ground. Then I read a few posts on the subject and realized what I was doing.
 
Kriig said:
Turn down volume on all patches separatly

OR turn down volum in GLOBAL EQ 1 (slider too the far right)
If you do the global thing you adhust volum for all the patches at once.

If the patches have delay, check level on the delay block. It should be 0dB in series/below 50%mix.

Level over 0dB/below 50%mix, boost the overall signal when the delay is engaged.
Click to expand...

I didn't linked any global things and i just try to turn down volume on all patches is work fine . But now the clean patches and dist patches volume are really not balance ..also when i play the 4-6strings on my guitar , the clip light will on again .
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
So you're saying to dial in the amp model to sound good through the poweramp and cab, and THEN adjust the IR send to the FOH to sound good? Can you give me some tips on what you've done to accomplish that? In other words, how what adjustments to you make to the cab block, or elsewhere, to optimize the FRFR signal?
Click to expand...

Yep, that's why I do.
Of course this only applies when playing through both kind of systems (which I do).

When you're dialing in the amp with an IR, the characteristics of that IR are a given. Such as the amount of low end, high end, specific mics used etc.
Best to get those out of the way. Capturing and working with an IR, as Fro writes above, is a good way. Or just connect the Axe to your power amp and speaker cabinet and start from there (at appropriate volume level), using the FXL block.

If the result is satisfactory, connect it to the FR equipent, pick an IR (or two) that's supposed to be close to your own cab and (if necessary) select the desired mic(s).

If at this stage the tone is too bright or too boomy, don't tweak the amp because that would defeat your efforts so far. Instead, use the Hi-Cut and/or Lo-Cut parameters in the Cab block to "sculpt" the tone you want. In fact this is the only thing which that differentiates my "FR" signal from my "poweramp + cabinet" signal.

Here's something you can try.
Download Pete Thorn's preset Pack. Link: Fractal Audio Systems - Pete Thorn Preset Pack Released
Upload the BE100 to your Axe-Fx. Disable the Tone Match block and the Cab blocks in that preset and add a FXL after the AMP.
Now test the sound through your power amp and cab.
Should sound great, at leats it does through my rig. :)
 
yek said:
Download Pete Thorn's preset Pack.
Upload the BE100 to your Axe-Fx. Disable the Tone Match block and the Cab blocks in that preset and add a FXL after the AMP.
Now test the sound through your power amp and cab.
Click to expand...

I had to add about 6dB of 80Hz in the amp's EQ block. After that, it sounded pretty good. I wonder if it's no coincidence that the lower band in the 8 band EQ is now 80 Hz? It'll be a couple of days before I get to try that with the band.

That's a good approach you outline, and it makes sense. As I said above, I'm going to spend some time tonight with a quality FRFR solution and see what happens. I am cautiously optimistic.
 
For what it's worth, I had the same observation as Art B earlier.

With FW 10.x, I had to tame the boominess in a few models (Euro Uber, FAS Brown, maybe a few others) by turning down the lowest EQ by 8dB and the next lowest by 4dB. With FW11RC I corrected that to -4dB on the 80 Hz and -2dB on the next one up. The boominess was mostly around the A and B notes on the A string, it actually got less noticable on the low E string.

I feel that FW11RC is a bigger change than FW11beta was, w/r/t equalization demands.
 
Yes, there is less bass in 11.00, but it sounds right with CLRs, now.
Even with 11b it sounded like everything was going through a 4x12 cab.
I called up the Vox AC30 factory preset last night, and no tweaking was necessary. It sound like an actual AC30 in the room.

Just compensate the bass if you needed. This sounds the correct amount to me, not the more bass.

More bass may feel more satisfying, but this is about being accurate.

IMHO
 
I had the same experience with v11b, bass was all over the place. I am using mainly Rectos. The low end was so unpleasant in v11b with rectos that I never even bothered to try to tame it. Today went to v11 and my v10.12 patches needed zero tweaking, they were just simply good sounding. I had no time to figure it out if they sound better, just different or the same.
 
Try resetting the EQ in he amp block by double tapping the enter key I did that on one of my amps and it seemed to bring things back. I hadn't had hardly any changes to the eq who knows maybe it was just my ears but it can't hurt to give it a try.
 
hey Karl, did you managed to to solve your problem?
a couple of days ago i took one of my patch, stuck a fxl block at the end, bypassed the cab block, set the amp block sag to zero, and plug it into my dsl40.
didn't like the tone i got but couldn't spend more time figuring it out (missus giving me the stink eye)
just spent some 15 minutes just now on this again today.
following yek's suggestion, i started from scratch without first firing up my active monitors.
for some reason, i could now get some fairly substantial bass going, and not that thin hollow tone i got a few days ago.
not exactly sure what changed...
 
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