Flanger

pima1234 said:
It sounds really good.
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;)

The key is getting the depth and time right. The basic algorithm IS a delay. Chorus and flangers are basically delays. If you can do it with the delay block then you can do it with the flanger block UNLESS the base time is greater than 10 ms. I've never seen a flanger have more than 10 ms of delay since then it's really not a flanger anymore but a chorus.
 
FractalAudio said:
;)

The key is getting the depth and time right. The basic algorithm IS a delay. Chorus and flangers are basically delays. If you can do it with the delay block then you can do it with the flanger block UNLESS the base time is greater than 10 ms. I've never seen a flanger have more than 10 ms of delay since then it's really not a flanger anymore but a chorus.
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A/DA Flanger has 14ms. Another difference between chorus and flanger is feedback.
 
pima1234 said:
I'm the guilty (maybe the most guilty, that is), but please take my comments with a grain of salt.

What I find is that I can't always get enough of the effect or that maybe sweep (phaser too) isn't quite wide enough or as pronounced as I might want at times. (but that's sometimes just me trying to experiment to see what I can do with the effects)
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The temptation is to turn Depth up but that can actually decrease the intensity of the effect. Depth controls the sweep depth but if you turn it up you'll sweep too much and ruin the effect. Always start very low and bring it up gradually. In retrospect the Depth control probably has too much range. I should look into reducing it.
 
Also drive before the phaser or flanger can sometime bring out the effect more. I'll often time put them after the amp/cab.
 
Any tips on using mix control for flanger?

I always thought depth and mix were sort of similar things, but i guess they are not.

FractalAudio said:
The temptation is to turn Depth up but that can actually decrease the intensity of the effect. Depth controls the sweep depth but if you turn it up you'll sweep too much and ruin the effect. Always start very low and bring it up gradually. In retrospect the Depth control probably has too much range. I should look into reducing it.
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javajunkie said:
A/DA Flanger has 14ms. Another difference between chorus and flanger is feedback.
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That's the maximum delay. The Axe-Fx time parameter sets the minimum time. The modulation is unipolar on top of the base time, up to 10 ms of modulation. So the maximum time is 20 ms which is longer than the A/DA.

Technically a flanger is a very short delay. "Flanging" came about by pressing on the flange of a tape reel of two tape decks that were synchronized. This caused a SMALL delay between the two decks.

Feedback was something that was added to "flangers" that were intended to emulate this effect but the original flanging technique did not have feedback. There is nothing to say a chorus can't have feedback as well. It just happens to not sound good so it's not done.
 
FractalAudio said:
That's the maximum delay. The Axe-Fx time parameter sets the minimum time. The modulation is unipolar on top of the base time, up to 10 ms of modulation. So the maximum time is 20 ms which is longer than the A/DA.

Technically a flanger is a very short delay. "Flanging" came about by pressing on the flange of a tape reel of two tape decks that were synchronized. This caused a SMALL delay between the two decks.

Feedback was something that was added to "flangers" that were intended to emulate this effect but the original flanging technique did not have feedback. There is nothing to say a chorus can't have feedback as well. It just happens to not sound good so it's not done.
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Yep, I know where flanging originated. I can't think of a pedal flanger that does not offer feedback today though.

Ahhh, I did not remember that was the minimum time. Still for the max delay range of the A/DA .4-14ms you would need to use the delay. Which works extremely well for that.
 
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pauliusmm said:
Any tips on using mix control for flanger?

I always thought depth and mix were sort of similar things, but i guess they are not.
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The ideal mix is 50% as this will create the most intense effect but sometimes a little more or less is desirable. If you deviate from 50% you'll reduce the depth of the notches caused by the comb filtering. This can make the effect more subtle but perhaps more "organic". Deep notches aren't always desirable.

Depth controls the sweep depth. Time controls the minimum delay time of the wet signal. Depth controls the maximum time, up to 10 ms beyond the minimum time. If you set Time to 1 ms and Depth to 100% the delay sweeps from 1 ms to 11 ms.

Personally I like around 1 ms for the time and 10 - 20% for the depth.

The issue isn't the algorithm. It's understanding the parameters and how to adjust them. Obviously things are too confusing for some people and I will have to give some thought on how to make the effect easier to adjust or clarify the controls. If anything, the flanger block is superior to the delay block for flanging because you have more precise control over the time. The delay block is quantized to 1 ms increments.
 
FractalAudio said:
Obviously things are too confusing for some people and I will have to give some thought on how to make the effect easier to adjust or clarify the controls.
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if anything, i think it's because people have more options on the Axe.

buy a basic flanger pedal it has depth, speed and on/off. they accept it. that's it. with less to fiddle with, they find "their sound" - 1 o clock on both knobs! (or something like that.)

people are constantly asking for "basic" controls for effects and amps, but they may not realize the work needed to match the tapers of each "basic" knob and what each one really does. so let's say they get their basic page with depth and speed, but then they match their real pedal knob positions and it doesn't sound exactly the same, yadda yadda...

of course we can ask for whatever we want. i like that. it's progress. it's ideas. i wish more people understood the work it takes to make a basic knob do basic things though. the "demand" notion may die down a bit and it may get more supportive with users providing actionable ideas :)
 
pauliusmm said:
Any tips on using mix control for flanger?

I always thought depth and mix were sort of similar things, but i guess they are not.
Click to expand...

Depth is the range of minimum delay to maximum delay that is modulated. If you turn depth to 0 you get a static very short delay. That is how you get the Filter Matrix sound of the EHX Flanger.

Mix is the amount of wet and dry signal.
 
FractalAudio said:
0 to 10 ms. Technically the block is capable of 0 to 20 ms but I've never found any use for that. Just sounds strange to me.
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Short delay times are ,of course , more traditional sounding, but sometime strange is cool.
Like I said, delay does more than fine in these cases. It is actually quite amazing, especially since you added the negative feedback.
 
javajunkie said:
Short delay times are ,of course , more traditional sounding, but sometime strange is cool.
Like I said, delay does more than fine in these cases. It is actually quite amazing, especially since you added the negative feedback.
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The flanger has negative feedback as well.
 
There are times when the effect (mainly the flanger) gets almost lost, or I can just can't get enough of it. Other times I find it easier to get the amount of the effect I want. I find it particularly difficult with the negative feedback (which also requires the phase reverse set on Both, right?).

This sounds strange, but it's almost as if the Flanger block is too transparent, and just doesn't take over the signal enough.

There's also a perceived volume drop, but if I increase the Level, it clips due to the oscillation. I don't get that with the chorus or phaser.

(For reference sake, running post cab.)
 
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