Flanger sweep timing consistency like Van Halen?

Danny Danzi

Danny Danzi

Power User
Hi guys,

This is a tricky one. I'll try my best to explain it right. You ever hear Unchained or Aint Talkin Bout Love how the flanger sweeps perfectly up and down over certain parts? I want to try to get the flanger in the AxeFx to do this more consistently but am only getting "luck of the draw" scenarios to where it works right.

When Ed was interviewed on this years ago, he chalked it up as pure luck. Ok cool, I get it.

In my 2101, I was able to change to my VH patch that had the flanger in it, count 2 seconds and play and bang...the flange would hit spot on every time as long as my tempo of the song was right.

I know that the timing you choose on the flanger is important as well as the timing of your performance. I got all that stuff down. What I can't seem to do is make the flanger start correctly with the Axe. It seems like there is no time where you can catch the sweep happening from up or down. It's always random and can't be timed or counted switching from a previous patch.

That said, I just watched a video of VH when he played on Jimmy Kimmel the other night and low and behold...that freaking flanger was spot on for both Aint Talkin and Unchained. Coincidence? Maybe, but it sounded too spot on. There were times he didn't even use it...you know, where he may have missed a cue in hitting it. Yet when he would hit it later, bang...it was right on. That particular flanger he uses must restart the sweep each time he presses the button or something. Knowing Cliff, whatever Ed has going on there, I'm sure it may be possible with our Axe. Anyone have any success with this or is there something I can try without buying Ed's flanger?

Thanks in advance.
 
No kidding? That's great Aziz...thanks, will look into that. One thing...I usually trigger the flange using my expression pedal...off in the up position, down in the on position. It's easier for me to rock on that and stay on it than it is to push the button. Can I still make it work or does it have to be a foot switch click? Thanks for the response.
 
aziz said:
You can set the LFO's in the Axe to start synced to your foot switch click.
Click to expand...

Also, if you get a second, can you tell me how to do this and where to find the right LFO? I was messing around with the flanger LFO's and they didn't help me with button presses or the pedal.
 
To do this you need to attach an LFO to the Flanger Time parameter. Turn the Flanger Depth to zero. The LFO is now controlling the flanging. Attach a continuous controller, i.e. Extern 1, to the LFO Type parameter (Run). When the CC is true the LFO will run and vice-versa. Whenever the LFO is not running it will reset to 0 degrees. Attach the same CC to the Flanger Byp Mode parameter which is manual bypass. So now when the CC is true the LFO will run and the Flanger will engage. When the CC is false the LFO will stop and reset and the Flanger will bypass.

That's all pretty complicated. In retrospect blocks like this should have an "LFO Reset on Bypass" parameter.
 
FractalAudio said:
To do this you need to attach an LFO to the Flanger Time parameter. Turn the Flanger Depth to zero. The LFO is now controlling the flanging. Attach a continuous controller, i.e. Extern 1, to the LFO Type parameter (Run). When the CC is true the LFO will run and vice-versa. Whenever the LFO is not running it will reset to 0 degrees. Attach the same CC to the Flanger Byp Mode parameter which is manual bypass. So now when the CC is true the LFO will run and the Flanger will engage. When the CC is false the LFO will stop and reset and the Flanger will bypass.

That's all pretty complicated. In retrospect blocks like this should have an "LFO Reset on Bypass" parameter.
Click to expand...

...and so the gears are grinding for 18.0.5
 
FractalAudio said:
To do this you need to attach an LFO to the Flanger Time parameter. Turn the Flanger Depth to zero. The LFO is now controlling the flanging. Attach a continuous controller, i.e. Extern 1, to the LFO Type parameter (Run). When the CC is true the LFO will run and vice-versa. Whenever the LFO is not running it will reset to 0 degrees. Attach the same CC to the Flanger Byp Mode parameter which is manual bypass. So now when the CC is true the LFO will run and the Flanger will engage. When the CC is false the LFO will stop and reset and the Flanger will bypass.

That's all pretty complicated. In retrospect blocks like this should have an "LFO Reset on Bypass" parameter.
Click to expand...

Yikes I better read my manual and get familiar with LFO's etc. LOL! I was trying to attach my expression pedal to the above options you mentioned to see if I'd get it. I guess what you're saying goes deeper than that and I need to assign something some other way. Is this a midi thing since I saw you mention CC's? Like midi note number commands somewhere.

Thanks so much for taking time out of your schedule to answer this personally Cliff. It really means a lot. Sorry I'm too inexperienced to understand it correctly. I'll read up and see if I can figure this out. The only thing that *may* be an issue if we can make this work is....we really don't want the flanger to restart all the time. We just need it to restart once and then it can stay the way it is. Of all the up and down flanges Eddie has, there are always two (one up and one down) that don't hit correctly even when it's working right. I just need it to reset when I go to use it one time and then it can flow freely and the rest will depend on:

a) my timing playing the song
b) the speed of the flanger

It's getting it to start from high going low on the initial start that I really need. I'm gonna figure this out and will post up the flange for it if I nail it. The sound I got right now as well as the flange tone sound so spot on, I'm getting chills. I just have to keep playing over and over until I can get it where that flange hits the right way from the start....then I can play the whole song in full. Thanks so much again!
 
I have an Ibanez Airplane Flanger and I always wished the takeoff mode had a switch that would let you choose the flange to start at 0 degrees, start at 180 degrees, or continuous. That way you could use it to set up like a dive bomb pedal.
 
Hellbat said:
I have an Ibanez Airplane Flanger and I always wished the takeoff mode had a switch that would let you choose the flange to start at 0 degrees, start at 180 degrees, or continuous. That way you could use it to set up like a dive bomb pedal.
Click to expand...
With the Axe-Fx, each LFO has two phases 180° apart. Phase B even lets you sweep the phase through 180°.
 
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Yes, if you end up getting this figured out, from my point of view, the ideal scenario would be to have 2 flanger blocks, one with a reset that sweeps up, and one with a reset that sweeps down. And I assume that the rate of sweep could be tied to tempo, so that if your band does not play to click tracks (so that you could simply save the tempo in the preset), you could tap tempo as you play, and make the sweep range fit into the space that we are all used to hearing on those classic recordings.

Of course, Cliff could just probably make a VH mode and have that tied to tempo, with controllers to sweep up or down and tied maybe to scene changes.

Like scene 1 - no flanger
scene 2 - flange up in tempo
scene 3 - flange down in tempo
 
FractalAudio said:
To do this you need to attach an LFO to the Flanger Time parameter. Turn the Flanger Depth to zero. The LFO is now controlling the flanging. Attach a continuous controller, i.e. Extern 1, to the LFO Type parameter (Run). When the CC is true the LFO will run and vice-versa. Whenever the LFO is not running it will reset to 0 degrees. Attach the same CC to the Flanger Byp Mode parameter which is manual bypass. So now when the CC is true the LFO will run and the Flanger will engage. When the CC is false the LFO will stop and reset and the Flanger will bypass.

That's all pretty complicated. In retrospect blocks like this should have an "LFO Reset on Bypass" parameter.
Click to expand...

This should be added to the Wiki! I just clipped it to my Evernote. Can't wait to try this out tonight.
 
How about adding a run forward and run reverse parameter?
Forward run Starts from 0° and runs to 180°...
Reverse run Starts from 180° and runs to 0°.... or something if this nature.

and.. Add a.. 'number of run repeats' parameter too. Yes? Just a thought.
 
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Glad I posted this thread. It made for some good conversation and hopefully some wheels spinning. I gotta get this LFO thing down. If I time the sweep just right coming out of another song (I usually go from Eruption/Cathedral/Spanish Fly into 316) where I use a little flange at the end so I can hear the sweep because we go into Unchained from there and it's the only way I can get that flanger just right.
 
I've added an "LFO Bypass Reset" parameter to the Flanger and Phaser blocks. Choices are: Off, 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees. If set to other than Off the LFO will reset to the chosen phase whenever the effect is in bypass.
 
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