Firmware 10.02, SysEx ID, and user cabinets

[ToH2002]

A utility is not necessary nor is the need to update your sysex files. If you load the sysex files via Axe-Edit it will automatically update the sysex ID dynamically.

If you choose to use a third-party librarian then you will need to modify your sysex files to the new ID.

Much ado about nothing.

OK, let's put this to bed. Isn't worth all the fuss anyhow. i guess we agree that "if you choose to use a third-party-librarian", it will not work after the update. I guess that where we disagree is that I still believe that the users who have made this choice (as is their right to do) should be actively informed that this is the case and how this can be resolved. After all, this way of working with Sysex files is being used by a number of AxeFX-users and is still being suggested by Fractal Audio on their web site as an alternative to Axe-Edit.

If it is Fractal Audio's decision that these users should not be supported through this change, then my only suggestion is to TELL THEM EXPLICITLY "don't use sysex librarians with your old files after the upgrade, it will not work unless you change your files", so they don't waste their time diagnosing why things don't work like they used to. Is that too much to ask?

Where we also seem to disagree is the necessity for "my little tool". Those users who for any reason choose not to install Axe-Edit and prefer simple sysex uploaders will need to change their sysex files. To do this manually for more than a handful of files is just not practical (even if you DO have Axe-Edit installed - loading and re-saving 20.000 files is just not something you want to do manually). I have no idea how many AxeFX owners prefer to use sysex uploaders, but it seems to be more than one... So, even though the tool is not necessary for Axe-Edit users, it may help the others, which was the reason for me to build it for my own use and to make it available to others in case they might find it useful as well. So, it can only be the users out there who can decide whether or not they need help converting their files.

Where we lastly seem to disagree is how to deal with a user who discovers an issue with an update and instead of just ranting on the forum, finds a way to deal with it constructively and tries to help other users who might have the same issue. The response I got from Fractal Audio has been essentially: "there is no problem, we don't need your help, go away". A simple "thank you for the heads-up and your suggestion" would have been a lot more polite and customer-friendly. Guess I'm just disappointed by the high-handed style I have been dealt with.

I will now leave it at that and not follow this thread anymore - 'nuff said.

Cheers,

Torsten

 

[yek]

Torsten, thanks for your help.
Looking at the trouble a lot of people have with the beta, unsupported Axe-Edit, your utility can assist them.
Well done.

 

[Sebastian]

I use midiOX, I don't use Axe-Edit and I fully agree with everything expressed in Torsten's last post. :|

 

[Zelja]

Hi All,

for all those of us who do NOT use the Editor but Tools like MidiOX or Bome's SendSX in order to upload impulse responses for the user cabs, the update to Firmware 10.02 will cause problems. Since the SysEx ID has changed from 00 00 7D to 00 01 74, sending .syx files via the above tools will in all probability (unless .syx files have been created with the new ID) NOT work for most of your sysex files (especially RedWirez .syx files).

For all of us who find MidiOX or SendSX easier to work with to quickly browse through impulse responses, the only solution is to patch the first four bytes of every .syx file from (hex) F0 00 00 7D to F0 00 01 74.

Hey, thanks for this info. After I upgraded to 10.02 I couldn't download presets or IRs using Midi-Ox. Was going to see if 10.02 was a problem & tried to download 10.01 firmware but that failed as well (now I know why). I had some difficulty (for the first time ever) upgrading to 10.02 & thought maybe my Midi interface was crapping out. Just tested downloading a preset by changing the first 4 bytes & she went down fine.

Thanks again Thorsten, you have saved me a heck of a lot of time, trying others things out (mucking around with cables, hardware etc). It looks like I'll need to get acquainted with Axe Edit (not before time I guess...).

 

[joegold]

A utility is not necessary nor is the need to update your sysex files. If you load the sysex files via Axe-Edit it will automatically update the sysex ID dynamically.

If you choose to use a third-party librarian then you will need to modify your sysex files to the new ID.

Much ado about nothing.

Can someone please point me to a Mac utility that will allow me to modify the contents of a .syx file?
They don't seem to open up in TextEdit.

 

[godprobe]

A utility is not necessary nor is the need to update your sysex files. If you load the sysex files via Axe-Edit it will automatically update the sysex ID dynamically.

If you choose to use a third-party librarian then you will need to modify your sysex files to the new ID.

Much ado about nothing.

Can someone please point me to a Mac utility that will allow me to modify the contents of a .syx file?
They don't seem to open up in TextEdit.

http://ridiculousfish.com/hexfiend/
or any hex editor -- that was just the first google result

 

[joegold]

Thanks. I'll check that out later.

 

[fastgokart]

I also like to use Midi-ox.

I think Torsten has made totally valid points in this thread.

 

[Chad]

Another MIDI-OX user here. I haven't had a chance to use your app yet, but will next time I have an Axe tweak session.

Thanks, Torsten!

 

[joegold]

If a Mac batch utility surfaces for this please let me know.
joegold AT primus DOT ca

 

[Raca]

Much appreciated.
I hope you are still reading this thread because I want to say: thank you Torsten!

 

[mortega76]

A utility is not necessary nor is the need to update your sysex files. If you load the sysex files via Axe-Edit it will automatically update the sysex ID dynamically.

If you choose to use a third-party librarian then you will need to modify your sysex files to the new ID.

Much ado about nothing.

OK, let's put this to bed. Isn't worth all the fuss anyhow. i guess we agree that "if you choose to use a third-party-librarian", it will not work after the update. I guess that where we disagree is that I still believe that the users who have made this choice (as is their right to do) should be actively informed that this is the case and how this can be resolved. After all, this way of working with Sysex files is being used by a number of AxeFX-users and is still being suggested by Fractal Audio on their web site as an alternative to Axe-Edit.

If it is Fractal Audio's decision that these users should not be supported through this change, then my only suggestion is to TELL THEM EXPLICITLY "don't use sysex librarians with your old files after the upgrade, it will not work unless you change your files", so they don't waste their time diagnosing why things don't work like they used to. Is that too much to ask?

Where we also seem to disagree is the necessity for "my little tool". Those users who for any reason choose not to install Axe-Edit and prefer simple sysex uploaders will need to change their sysex files. To do this manually for more than a handful of files is just not practical (even if you DO have Axe-Edit installed - loading and re-saving 20.000 files is just not something you want to do manually). I have no idea how many AxeFX owners prefer to use sysex uploaders, but it seems to be more than one... So, even though the tool is not necessary for Axe-Edit users, it may help the others, which was the reason for me to build it for my own use and to make it available to others in case they might find it useful as well. So, it can only be the users out there who can decide whether or not they need help converting their files.

Where we lastly seem to disagree is how to deal with a user who discovers an issue with an update and instead of just ranting on the forum, finds a way to deal with it constructively and tries to help other users who might have the same issue. The response I got from Fractal Audio has been essentially: "there is no problem, we don't need your help, go away". A simple "thank you for the heads-up and your suggestion" would have been a lot more polite and customer-friendly. Guess I'm just disappointed by the high-handed style I have been dealt with.

I will now leave it at that and not follow this thread anymore - 'nuff said.

Cheers,

Torsten

Part of the reason might also be that Fractal Audio was unaware that they would be having any "issues" with 10.02 and IR syx files...

And another thing... seams a bit odd to me that the only "supported" method for uploading IR's in 10.02 is via Axe-edit which itself is not officially "supported"? As Arsenio would say... "Things that make you go hmm...."

Speaking of Arsenio... daaaaamn!!!

 

[Deltones]

Part of the reason might also be that Fractal Audio was unaware that they would be having any "issues" with 10.02 and IR syx files...

And another thing... seams a bit odd to me that the only "supported" method for uploading IR's in 10.02 is via Axe-edit which itself is not officially "supported"? As Arsenio would say... "Things that make you go hmm...."

I have to admit Fractal's response to this issue is pretty bizarre and rude to the OP, considering the "not-offically supported" AND beta status of Axe-Edit. I didn't update to 10.02, have all the Redwirez cabs and I still use the Lars editor, which is working flawlessly for me. But I wonder what I will do when Fractal releases a substantial firmware update, with Axe-Edit still in Beta.

 

[shasha]

Now I know that this may seem silly, but I would think that redwirez would just go through and redo their libraries to make it work and you could just download them again. Now really sure how much a hassle that would be, but since they are providing the file in sysex format they are the ones responsible for maintaining it.

And from what I've seen from those guys I wouldn't be shocked if they were already working on it as I type this.

 

[electronpirate]

Okay, I'll bang the corporate drum.

Guys, you are SPOILED. Fractal comes out with a solution that will solve the issue, but the main Torsten complaint is getting acclaim from those who want to 'do it my way, but Fractal has to support it'.

You are talking to the owner of the company who is going WAY out of his way to provide a seamless, platform independent, no-brainer solution to the problem. But many still are pissed that your individualism is infringed upon because you want to use MIDI-OX, or Sysex Librarian, or feel the need to modify (the oft thrown number) 20,000 files so it will work. Keep in mind again that he has absolutely NO OBLIGATION to fix your problem with 3rd party solutions, but still listens to the problems encountered.

This has devolved from a discussion about how Fractal *should* provide hardware for the Editor, to now providing coast to coast solutions for upgrading firmware, hardware compatibility, and even 3rd party IR transfer.

This is a very fluid and ever-evolving product, but this 'do it for me' attitude is ridiculous. The beauty of what has happened so far is that people are participating, making suggestions, and the Axe-FX is better for it. Torsten has made valid points, but he's still peeved that his suggestion was not given what he deemed 'due respect'. Most of it seems to be that he's mad that his utility was not used, as well as the wording (if I have to see 'he called it a "little utility!" ' again...) which could have been worded better, but in the end, he's the owner...he'll use what he wants. Deal with it.

Use the utility if you like. No reason not to, but don't expect that you'll get help if things blow up. Fractal's tried to make things easier, not give you infinite options to do a simple firmware update. The fact that you have the unit, and FREQUENT firmware updates, should be enough.

And do you think anything APPROACHING this discussion happens at Lexicon, Line6, or Digitech.

Ron

 

[shasha]

And do you think anything APPROACHING this discussion happens at Lexicon, Line6, or Digitech.

Ron

From what I saw when I was evaluating products before I decided on the Axe-FX, most of those places were filled with people asking for those companies to just make their junk work in the first place. :mrgreen:

 

[Deltones]

Keep in mind again that he has absolutely NO OBLIGATION to fix your problem with 3rd party solutions

And you would be absolutely right IF Axe-Edit was officially supported by Fractal, but it's not in its present beta state. So the way I see it, Axe-Edit is a third party solution, same as the other tools mentionned in this thread. Unless I'm mistaken, the OP didn't ask for instant glorification, he asked for some help in porting his utility to the Mac in order to help more people who have thousands of third party IR's with a possible transition to 10.02 and above.

I don't think the OP would have had any problem with a response along the lines of "Thanks for the request, but we unfortunately don't have any Mac programmers onboard" and leave it at that.

 

[joegold]

Q.
Does the old Axe-FxIRConverter set the SysEx ID in its .syx files when it's used to create an IR from a .wav file?

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm guessing that it does - and that it sets it to the old SysEx ID values.

This will be a problem going forward for anybody involved in making their own IRs until someone else comes out with a new similar .wav to .syx converter utility.
(Might be a useful addition to Axe-Edit?)

And I also think that because Axe-Edit is still in beta that this whole thing is pretty messy.
I know the current version is much more stable than it used to be, but I've never felt safe using it. Still don't.

Too bad they had to change the SysEx ID for MFC-101 compatibility.

This will all work out in the end.
Red Wires is probably batch converting all their .syx IR files as we speak.
But still. Kinda messy.
IMO

 

[godprobe]

[...] This will be a problem going forward for anybody involved in making their own IRs [...]

not really, since Axe-Edit will convert it. if you're making your own IRs, you probably aren't doing hundreds of them in a few seconds, so dropping them through Axe-Edit or editing them by hand won't be a big deal.

[...] the OP didn't ask for instant glorification, he asked for some help in porting his utility to the Mac [...]

before this gets misconstrued through the rest of the topic, the Mac port is not what he asked Fractal for. he asked this of the community. To Fractal, as far as I can tell, he basically just said "hey, I made this, that should solve this small issue with the new firmware's manufacturer ID", thinking that he made something to help both Fractal and the community (which, imho, he did). And I agree that Fractal's reply could have been worded better. Just leave out "little" and it would have been a total non-issue. Sometimes FAS is a bit terse like that (perhaps from chafing memories of other third-party devs in the past), and it's something that we can all just deal with and love the good... kinda like when Jay gives one of his super-informative but terribly condescending rants.

- For the average user using Axe-Edit, Cliff is correct, it's a non-issue.
- For the average user who hasn't adopted Axe-Edit yet, they either get to use Axe-Edit to re-save a few files, adopt Axe-Edit, or be a little technical and hand-edit the ID (a very easy thing to do in either MIDI-Ox or Bome's).
- For the super-user with thousands of SysEx files with the old ID, Torsten's utility is extremely useful and I'll take this opportunity to again thank him for writing it so that I don't have to write one myself.

 

[joegold]

The fact remains that many of us simply don't trust hooking up Axe Edit to our Axe-FXs because we're worried that it will bork something.

The first time I ever tried to use Axe Edit I lost an entire bank of presets, as I recall.
That was when it first came out and I know it's a lot better now... But I still have not learned to get over my fear and to fully trust it.

I do all my editing from the front panel of the Axe.
I use SysEx Utility to save/load preset banks and User Cabs.
Sometimes I use the old editor to rearrange presets in a bank, etc.

Speaking of the old editor.
It has an Option for selecting the sysex ID.
But it's not in hex. Just Arabic whole numbers.
Does anybody know if this can be set to work with the new sysex ID in the 10.02 firmware?
Will the old editor also be able to send Cab IRs to the new Axe?

Has a new .xml file been created yet for the old editor to work with the new firmware?