Diezel VH4 with FX8 in 4 Cable Method

Veritas0Aequitas

Veritas0Aequitas

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Does anyone here have a Diezel VH4 that they've tried with an FX8 in 4 Cable Method (4CM) successfully?

Did you have you use Fractal humbuster cables or an Ebtech Hum Eliminator or HumX with it?

I used to use a G-System with an Ebtech Hum Eliminator and it reduced most of the hum but not all of it. It was still a bit noisy when I wasn't playing and on a distorted channel like 3 or 4. Just wondering if the FX8 works better since it's meant to run the 4CM. I liked the G-System for effects, they sounded great, but it's a bit outdated and was kind of noisy. Hoping the FX8 solves those issues.

Thanks!
 
I’m not using a Diezel but I am using a Rivera S120, in which is a stereo head. It’s very sensitive to anything I plugged into it. I used to run a Boss ES-8 in 4CM (5CM for me) and had to have a Hum Eliminator on 3 lines (amp out and 2 fx returns). It never fully got rid of the noise and dulled the tone a bit. With the FX8, I made my own Humbusters and my rig is dead quiet with no noticeable loss of tone.
 
Hi, I own a VH-4 and bought a used FX8 recently. While the VH-4 is one of the quietest amps I know it was a bit of a struggle to get 4CM working. I bought humbuster cables and used the same power socket for the VH-4 and FX8, but it didn't help. I had really bad hum (ground loop) even when using the FX8 only pre. Maybe it's a problem in our practice space, but with my pedal boards, my BOSS GT-Pro or a tc G-major I never had problems with ground loops before. I only could fix it using the line isolators I have (a Palmer PLI 05 and a Lehle P-Split) for all connections between the FX8 and the VH-4. Now it's dead silent and fortunately my tone didn't suffer.

But nonetheless I love using the FX8 together with the VH-4. Now they work great together and the effects quality and possibilities with the FX8 are absolutely stunning. The FX8 really is a great unit - have fun with it!
 
assinger said:
Hi, I own a VH-4 and bought a used FX8 recently. While the VH-4 is one of the quietest amps I know it was a bit of a struggle to get 4CM working. I bought humbuster cables and used the same power socket for the VH-4 and FX8, but it didn't help. I had really bad hum (ground loop) even when using the FX8 only pre. Maybe it's a problem in our practice space, but with my pedal boards, my BOSS GT-Pro or a tc G-major I never had problems with ground loops before. I only could fix it using the line isolators I have (a Palmer PLI 05 and a Lehle P-Split) for all connections between the FX8 and the VH-4. Now it's dead silent and fortunately my tone didn't suffer.

But nonetheless I love using the FX8 together with the VH-4. Now they work great together and the effects quality and possibilities with the FX8 are absolutely stunning. The FX8 really is a great unit - have fun with it!
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Hey, thanks for the response! That is all very helpful information.

Did you use humbuster cables with the line isolaters or regular 1/4" cables?

Can you give me some more information on how you used them/how you set it up with them? Where everything connects, etc?
I will probably end up doing this as I had major issues with ground loop hum with the 4cm with the G-System and I could not get it to stop humming.
 
Sure, no problem! These are my signal paths:

Guitar -> TS cable -> FX8 in -> humbuster cable from FX8 pre out to Lehle P-Split in -> short TS cable from Lehle P-Split isolated out to amp input

Short TS cable from Diezel VH-4 serial loop send to PLI05 In01 -> TS cable from PLI05 Out01 to FX8 post in -> humbuster cable from FX8 post out to PLI05 In02 -> short TS cable from PLI05 Out02 to VH-4 serial loop return

This way every connection between FX8 and VH-4 goes through a line isolator. FX8 and VH-4 get their power through the same power conditioner.

I didn't check it without humbuster cables yet, but I guess with the two line isolaters there's propably no need for the humbusters. When I'm at home and connect the FX8 to my practice amp with regular TS cables and without line isolators there is no hum at all.
 
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assinger said:
Sure, no problem! These are my signal paths:

Guitar -> TS cable -> FX8 in -> humbuster cable from FX8 pre out to Lehle P-Split in -> short TS cable from Lehle P-Split isolated out to amp input

Short TS cable from Diezel VH-4 serial loop send to PLI05 In01 -> TS cable from PLI05 Out01 to FX8 post in -> humbuster cable from FX8 post out to PLI05 In02 -> short TS cable from PLI05 Out02 to VH-4 serial loop return

This way every connection between FX8 and VH-4 goes through a line isolator. FX8 and VH-4 get their power through the same power conditioner.

I didn't check it without humbuster cables yet, but I guess with the two line isolaters there's propably no need for the humbusters. When I'm at home and connect the FX8 to my practice amp with regular TS cables and without line isolators there is no hum at all.
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Can you tell me why you used two different line isolators? Is that just because you had two different ones or did you have a specific reason?

If there's no reason, which one do you like better? Because I think I will probably be ordering two to do what you did. Unless they make a 3 channel one somewhere or a rack unit I could use for my little rack I put on my VH4. Ideally I'd like to keep my pedalboard as small and clean as possible.
 
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I had the Palmer PLI05 because it's always nice to have one available if you play live and problems with ground loops occur. I bought the Lehle P-Split some time ago to drive two amps and to record a DI signal of the guitar to do reamping, but it works as a line isolator, too. So there was no specific reason, I just took what I had and was glad it worked out. Luckily I had enough space on my board and after replacing the Boss GT-Pro with the FX8 I have no rack anymore.

Soundwise I hear no difference between the Palmer and the Lehle, both don't change the tone of the VH-4. If I had to buy one just for line isolation I'd go with the Palmers (one PLI 05 and one PLI 01 for all three connections between FX8 and VH-4), because they're smaller and cheaper than the Lehle.

The only 19" line isolator I know is the Palmer PAN08. But I don't know, if it works for guitar, because it has XLR outs.
 
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assinger said:
I had the Palmer PLI05 because it's always nice to have one available if you play live and problems with ground loops occur. I bought the Lehle P-Split some time ago to drive two amps and to record a DI signal of the guitar to do reamping, but it works as a line isolator, too. So there was no specific reason, I just took what I had and was glad it worked out. Luckily I had enough space on my board and after replacing the Boss GT-Pro with the FX8 I have no rack anymore.

Soundwise I hear no difference between the Palmer and the Lehle, both don't change the tone of the VH-4. If I had to buy one just for line isolation I'd go with the Palmers (one PLI 05 and one PLI 01 for all three connections between FX8 and VH-4), because they're smaller and cheaper than the Lehle.

The only 19" line isolator I know is the Palmer PAN08. But I don't know, if it works for guitar, because it has XLR outs.
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Thanks for your recommendation. I tried the 4cm and I get hum no matter what. I think the VH4 just does it. So, I ordered the PLI 05 and PLI 01. Hopefully they maintain the purity of the tone like you said. I guess we'll see when I get em! If not, I'll try the Lehle but that's a more expensive option.
 
I'm pretty sure it will work out for you. It seems that the VH-4 and the FX8 are not a good match regarding ground loops. Strange that I never had problems like this before with other multi effects or my pedalboards in the same environment. On the PLI05 and the Lehle I had to push the ground lift switch to end the hum. Soundwise I hear no difference, but what is even more important for me is, that I feel no difference regarding interaction between the VH-4 and my guitar.
 
That's a big deal as feel is really important with the VH4. Thanks for relaying your experience. I'm definitely encouraged.

Forgot to ask, did you use the serial or parallel effects loop? Thanks!
 
I use the serial loop with the VH-4, this way you can use the parallel loop as a second master volume and you don't run into phase issues. Parallel loop only makes sense to me if the effects unit is a tone sucker (which isn't the case with the fx8) and you want as much dry signal as possible.
 
assinger said:
I use the serial loop with the VH-4, this way you can use the parallel loop as a second master volume and you don't run into phase issues. Parallel loop only makes sense to me if the effects unit is a tone sucker (which isn't the case with the fx8) and you want as much dry signal as possible.
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Hey just another question for you:

How do you do amp switching with MIDI for your VH4? I read the manual but I still am confused how to work this thing.

That includes scenes too... I'll keep playing around.
 
I change channels via program change (PC) commands. First you have to make sure that the VH-4 receives midi on the right channel (or on all channels - omni mode). If you send a program change command from the FX8 to the VH-4 you have to store it on the VH-4:

6.1 Preamp Channel Selection
The 4 channels of the Diezel can be selected manually by activating the red button above each
channel strip, or can be programmed via the midi control system. If you assign the channel one
switch function to a midi program ( for example “01”), then you can initiate this channel’s switching
via your midi pedal. Push “01” on your midi pedal after programming, and the pedal will send digital
information to the amplifier. The amp will read this information and decide whether or not it is
supposed to respond. When properly programmed, it will then switch on channel one. OK, here it is
again: select 01 on your midi pedal. select channel one of the VH4. Now push “Store” twice. Voila’,
it’s a midi program! Now select program change “02” on your pedal, switch the amp to channel two,
hit “Store” twice, and suddenly you have a midi program with 2 program changes. Continue on until
you run out of channels, about 2 more times. All the other function of the amp can be programmed
in the same exact way. Remember: push “Store “ twice to finalize a midi program procedure. Select
the program from the pedal to recall it at the amp.

I use the program change numbers 0 to 3 to change the channels.

It's really easy to program amp switching and scenes with FX8 Edit. You'll find the parameters for midi channel and program change on the config page in every scene. If you want to use scenes make sure the FX8 is in scene mode. I use the FX8 in sticky scene select mode cause I use one preset per song and change the sounds used in the song by selecting different scenes.

Btw, did the PLI05 eliminate the hum?
 
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assinger said:
I change channels via program change (PC) commands. First you have to make sure that the VH-4 receives midi on the right channel (or on all channels - omni mode). If you send a program change command from the FX8 to the VH-4 you have to store it on the VH-4:

6.1 Preamp Channel Selection
The 4 channels of the Diezel can be selected manually by activating the red button above each
channel strip, or can be programmed via the midi control system. If you assign the channel one
switch function to a midi program ( for example “01”), then you can initiate this channel’s switching
via your midi pedal. Push “01” on your midi pedal after programming, and the pedal will send digital
information to the amplifier. The amp will read this information and decide whether or not it is
supposed to respond. When properly programmed, it will then switch on channel one. OK, here it is
again: select 01 on your midi pedal. select channel one of the VH4. Now push “Store” twice. Voila’,
it’s a midi program! Now select program change “02” on your pedal, switch the amp to channel two,
hit “Store” twice, and suddenly you have a midi program with 2 program changes. Continue on until
you run out of channels, about 2 more times. All the other function of the amp can be programmed
in the same exact way. Remember: push “Store “ twice to finalize a midi program procedure. Select
the program from the pedal to recall it at the amp.

I use the program change numbers 0 to 3 to change the channels.

It's really easy to program amp switching and scenes with FX8 Edit. You'll find the parameters for midi channel and program change on the config page in every scene. If you want to use scenes make sure the FX8 is in scene mode. I use the FX8 in sticky scene select mode cause I use one preset per song and change the sounds used in the song by selecting different scenes.

Btw, did the PLI05 eliminate the hum?
Click to expand...

Thank you! I finally figured it out.

It seems like theres still a little buzz but that might be because I have the gain cranked up. I think it will do that even if I plug straight in. Just the high gain nature of the amp but I'll play around with it. I need to get it re-tubed as well.

Loving the FX8 so far.
 
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