Wish Dedicated Stutter/Glitch block

[unix-guy]

there’s not a lot of places to go to for new and modern studio quality rack effects gear that's frequently updated, Axe FX & H9000 afaik

Keep in mind that the H9000 is an effects processor...

The Axe Fx is an amp modeler that is also an effects processor. It's prime directive is to accurately model tube amplifiers and any other functionality is secondary.

Even though the effects are world class, they are still secondary. Otherwise, having the ability to use the DSP that is dedicated for amp modeling to perform additional effects processing would be available.

All of this is (of course) IMHO...

It's also 1/3rd the cost of an H9000

 

[Budda]

Honestly running an H9000 in the loop of the III is going to be fairly easy. You already have the one unit and seem to know how to create what you want for glitch there. If anything consider the eventide the external glitch/extras box and the III the main piece and go from there. Integration shouldn't be difficult (unless you want it to be).

 

[simeon]

e.g. would Fractal develop a very DSP heavy block?

Actually are there any current examples like that?

no and no

if the H9000 does what you want, then put it in the loop, as others have said. if you specifically want glitchy stuff, then look into buying pedals that perform the functions you want. the axe isn't designed for that stuff, but you can do some interesting things with it, if you're creative and interested in programming it. if you want world class amp simulation, then the axe fx is top of the heap.

 

[Bodde]

We're in the age of glitch
stutter stuff is awesome and an incredible instrument effect

I built a stutter factory algo for the H9000 that uses 2 delay lines that loop when triggered - so the stutter is a recording (not tremolo/pan based)
Set stutter duration for left & right (Golden Ratio is killer) then..

• Manual trigger Stutter (switch on/off)
• Auto Stutter (set cycle frequency & hold duration)
• Dynamic based Stutter (trigger above threshold - but am adding below threshold too)

hope they consider more glitch stuff for this Platform

What will you use the Axe fx for if you already have a H9000? Seems like the H9000 has even more in the effect departement than the Axe fx? Or do you want to use it for amps and cabs?

 

[macgee]

thanks for the comments guys
Add www. to the links, it won't let me post links

So why the Axe FX - for the Amps and very much for the Effects..for what it does today and for what I hope the effects will do tomorrow
Appears the Axe has excellent pitch shifting for polyphonic sources and along pitch tracking is very enticing - the H9000 lags in high quality pitch department

There's tons of other effects on H9k but I pine for granular and high quality pitch; both of which no confirmation will arrive on the H9000.
So for modern glitch, I'm currently limited by current algos, my imagination and what I can build with the modules that exist, which is a lot though!!

I built an algo over about 9months with multiple loopers...massive project, what a mission...but I'm happy with it...boring guitar sample but you get the idea
gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/828455d1562665283-eventide-vsig-programming-thread-longersettingsb.m4a
gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/828456d1562665283-eventide-vsig-programming-thread-longersettingsa.m4a

The H9000 is awesome just it's not as immediate as what I expect the Axe is (relatively speaking). Only other guitar processor I have is Digitech 2112...

Why not pedals...I have a few fun pedals which I use, e.g. Drolo, Chase Bliss, etc..but many are not designed in a way that makes it easy to use in a mix and many are not stereo. In fact I built the stutter factory after playing with the stretch weaver, very inspirational

With many pedals, It's difficult to automate, trigger things accurately, get the phase of modulation aligned and importantly recall these complex settings easily.

Better than pedals is modular, e.g. Instruo arbhar Granular Audio Processor, I love this...but to automate, sync, recall, etc...it's a rabbit hole I'm exploring and pricey!

Why not software? CPU, performance Latency and ultimately Live performance

With H9000 and Vsig, it’s easy enough to automate, sync, recall, etc...I expect the Axe to be close enough

Regardless what updates I get, I can use H9k in it's current form the next 20 years

With the rate of dev on the Axe FX, I was hoping they will explore new exciting ground in the effects department...maybe I'm looking in the wrong place

This is a good article
guitarpedalx.com/news/news/further-thoughts-on-granular-synthesis--glitch-style-pedals

 

[simeon]

interestingly, i had and just sold the instruo arbhar. absolutely gorgeous module, but i was starting to go down a very deep and expensive rabbit hole with modular and had to put a lid on it. the arbhar also doesn't do much that's significantly different than the granular stuff i have running in my laptop. i almost bought a morphagene, which may have actually been more appropriate for what i was hoping to do, but i have to be sensible.
running a laptop is actually very easy - one usb cable and you're good to go. i have mine running 100% wet, so i don't have to worry about latency. lots of granular stuff running in there.
ps - i wouldn't buy the axe fx hoping that what you want will be added later. there's absolutely no guarantee. buy it for what it is now and anything over and above that is a bonus.

 

[Bodde]

thanks for the comments guys
Add www. to the links, it won't let me post links

So why the Axe FX - for the Amps and very much for the Effects..for what it does today and for what I hope the effects will do tomorrow
Appears the Axe has excellent pitch shifting for polyphonic sources and along pitch tracking is very enticing - the H9000 lags in high quality pitch department

There's tons of other effects on H9k but I pine for granular and high quality pitch; both of which no confirmation will arrive on the H9000.
So for modern glitch, I'm currently limited by current algos, my imagination and what I can build with the modules that exist, which is a lot though!!

I built an algo over about 9months with multiple loopers...massive project, what a mission...but I'm happy with it...boring guitar sample but you get the idea
gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/828455d1562665283-eventide-vsig-programming-thread-longersettingsb.m4a
gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/828456d1562665283-eventide-vsig-programming-thread-longersettingsa.m4a

The H9000 is awesome just it's not as immediate as what I expect the Axe is (relatively speaking). Only other guitar processor I have is Digitech 2112...

Why not pedals...I have a few fun pedals which I use, e.g. Drolo, Chase Bliss, etc..but many are not designed in a way that makes it easy to use in a mix and many are not stereo. In fact I built the stutter factory after playing with the stretch weaver, very inspirational

With many pedals, It's difficult to automate, trigger things accurately, get the phase of modulation aligned and importantly recall these complex settings easily.

Better than pedals is modular, e.g. Instruo arbhar Granular Audio Processor, I love this...but to automate, sync, recall, etc...it's a rabbit hole I'm exploring and pricey!

Why not software? CPU, performance Latency and ultimately Live performance

With H9000 and Vsig, it’s easy enough to automate, sync, recall, etc...I expect the Axe to be close enough

Regardless what updates I get, I can use H9k in it's current form the next 20 years

With the rate of dev on the Axe FX, I was hoping they will explore new exciting ground in the effects department...maybe I'm looking in the wrong place

This is a good article
guitarpedalx.com/news/news/further-thoughts-on-granular-synthesis--glitch-style-pedals

Personally I think that pedals like Chase Bliss or Montreal Assembly are much better and hands on for glitch stuff than the Axe fx. Maybe it can be done with a lot of pre planning and complex chaining on the Axe fx but it doesn’t cover the improvised and spontaneous glitch stuff that these specialized pedals do.

 

[simeon]

exactly. glitch to me, isn't about patching, recall, sync or automation, it's about spontaneity and interaction. playing the gear like an instrument and reacting to it. i'm trying to find a clip of david torn playing with the chase bliss mood so i can ram my point home

 

[simeon]

no idea if these will work. DT using the chase bliss mood in some capacity or other along with not so healthy doses of extreme fuzz (you know the score)

btw, i can't get these to play directly in the thread, but if you right click and select open frame in new tab, they play ok from there

 

[Holyoli]

exactly. glitch to me, isn't about patching, recall, sync or automation, it's about spontaneity and interaction. playing the gear like an instrument and reacting to it. i'm trying to find a clip of david torn playing with the chase bliss mood so i can ram my point home

+1
The Chase bliss Mood is a really nice and inspiring pedal. Mainly because it's often unpredictable and takes you somewhere you would not go. Like if it was playing with you. Lots of fun and interaction with it.
And of course David Torn is amazing ...

 

[macgee]

Yes, I love the pedals...but the most annoying thing is when you come up with something in a moment and then try and recreate or record it later..this has happened so many times that I've lost count. Magic happens in a moment and that's jamming! That's even happened to me with my own algo on H9000 so I had to add triggers and sync/offsets, etc..

When putting an album together, you need that spontaneity along with repeatability and THAT is the challenge (unless you caught that moment)
So everyone works differently
I love the Drolo Stretch Weaver and what I was getting with Stutter when performing but to use as I wanted in a mix, I needed extended controls, triggers, sync, etc..so built myself

With the Axe, H9000 or any box, it's about how you develop the tool, how you make it user friendly and inspiring...
So you can setup what you want to happen and then trigger it when you need it; that's where the Axe FX shines and the H9000 is no different, even my Digitech 2112 is like that

Also, the connectivity sound quality of Rack means you get less degradation on the round trip
Using super high quality reamp/di equipment, my sources still lose it's high fidelity on the round trip through pedals
With the H9000, the fidelity is retained. Don't get me wrong, sometimes you want that lower fidelity, it's awesome but not always...
The H9 algos on the H9k, wow, they're so much more full range, high fidelity...not what you always want though!

Anyways, I'll pick up the Axe FX and put the wish in and see how we go - if there's a demand, hopefully they'll do it
@simeon, thanks for the vids..what's your workflow/tool for granular on the laptop?

 

[simeon]

@simeon, thanks for the vids..what's your workflow/tool for granular on the laptop?

axe connected to laptop via usb, which places the laptop audio at the end of the axe layout. ableton live running as a digital mixer with plugins instantiated in separate tracks (i.e. all running in parallel), feeding two loopers. all controlled by Lemur running on an ipad.

 

[Bodde]

+1
The Chase bliss Mood is a really nice and inspiring pedal. Mainly because it's often unpredictable and takes you somewhere you would not go. Like if it was playing with you. Lots of fun and interaction with it.
And of course David Torn is amazing ...

Think I will prefer the Blooper. What do you think? Haven't tried any of the Chase Bliss pedals though. Just sold my Count to Five pedal.

 

[Holyoli]

I think I'd like to get the Blooper too . But it's nearly 600 euros here so I'm still hesitating. From the vids and comments they seem very different, Mood being more oriented toward short loops and their treatment I think.

 

[Bodde]

I think I'd like to get the Blooper too . But it's nearly 600 euros here so I'm still hesitating. From the vids and comments they seem very different, Mood being more oriented toward short loops and their treatment I think.

600 euros!! Wow that's really too much for any pedal. Didn't know they were that expensive. I was expecting about half of that price. I pass.

 

[Budda]

Check out the cooperfx outward too.

At $750cad roughly for the zoia, it's worth it for the synth + glitch abilities IMO. Empress also does great effects as well, which would further open up in tandem with the III.

Eventually I'll get a zoia and a controller and really get into musical orbit...

 

[Bodde]

I think I'd like to get the Blooper too . But it's nearly 600 euros here so I'm still hesitating. From the vids and comments they seem very different, Mood being more oriented toward short loops and their treatment I think.

Just saw on their website that the Blooper is 499$. But in Europe it is 579 euro.

I know all these pedals like the Mood, Blooper and Count to Five are different and that it totally depends on how you use them. But sometimes the end result can sound sort of the same. Especially when they use the octave pitch type stuff. Also feel they sometimes make these pedals too complex to fully understand what’s going on. You have to invest a lot of time in it and work with it on a regular basis to get their full potential and to do something more or less predictable (if that is what you want). But basically they cover the same ground.

 

[macgee]

Also feel they sometimes make these pedal too complex to fully understand what’s going on. You have to invest a lot of time in it and work with it on a regular basis to get their full potential and to do something more or less predictable (if that is what you want). But basically they cover the same ground.

Absolutely agree needing to invest a ton of time to really learn to use some of these pedals (multi function knobs, dip switches) and then also learn how to perform with it - like an instrument
As a guitarist, it's not always possible to pull off some things while performing
This is where the Fractal and H9000 and similar shine - great UIs to see all parameters, design your effect, apply modifiers, triggers, etc.. so you can achieve complex (repeatable) results with the press of a switch and using expression pedals or even automate it

 

[Bodde]

Absolutely agree needing to invest a ton of time to really learn to use some of these pedals (multi function knobs, dip switches) and then also learn how to perform with it - like an instrument
As a guitarist, it's not always possible to pull off some things while performing

yes I agree. I love all of these pedals but sometimes I have the feeling they make it overly complex by trying to incorporate everything they can think of. Dip switches, secondary functions etc. It's all nice but it can be too much for live use.
That's why I sold my Count to Five after two years. They added and kept adding all kinds of new invisible secondary functions. You have to remember all these knob and switch combinations and it was getting too complex because of that. When I didn't use the pedal for a few months I had to relearn it again to some extent.
Also some sounds did get in sort of the same territory in the end. I hear some of the same sounds with the Chase Bliss pedals too. I still have my Hexe Revolver. It's not the same and it has it's limits but I like the simplicity of the pedal. That sort of interaction with the pedal is hard to recreate on the Axe fx.

That being said I would like to try both the Mood and the Blooper pedal for a few months.

 

[macgee]

I still have my Hexe Revolver. It's not the same and it has it's limits but I like the simplicity of the pedal. That sort of interaction with the pedal is hard to recreate on the Axe fx.
That being said I would like to try both the Mood and the Blooper pedal for a few months.

I don't know the Hexe Revolver but listened to it - sounds like the Drolo FX channel of the MOOD could achieve some of those FX with the microlooper
But the Mood and Granular in general should definitely be possible to include on the Axe and doesn't need too much complexity - though Axe no stranger to complexity, just look at those Amp parameters!!

Anyways a good start would be a simple granular delay, records at normal speed but plays back at another
Then over time they could add more playback heads, each with their own playback speed along with feedback & hold - option to speed the feedback loop or not

Crystals is similar but it uses a pitch shifter instead of adjusting speed and limited to 2 heads - as far as I understand from the blocks manual

For stutter fx, seems the improved response speed is essential; 15ms fade in/out is too long sometimes

In all very achievable if they chose to