I'm still after that myself but too lazy to experiment, so please deliver QUICKLY
A friend of mine has been after it for 30 years + too.
I think some problems are:
- we have to take Pat's word for the delay times (he mentioned more than 2 figures, though they were close)
- if I'm correct that leaves 4 parameters unknown: rate and depth for the two units (depth would be "very slight" or "low depth and rate" in his words, which seems logical)
- we don't know how the real thing sounds, cos it only happens where he is standing and he has often said he was not able to record it as well as he wished
OTOH, you can put a PM recording to mono and still enjoy that sound, so there is always something to go after
Here's another tidbit:
The Gear Page - View Single Post - Pat Metheny On Chorus pedals.. Getting his sound.
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I think he could also get it with one Prime Time (and one MXR) (same principle but less rich?)
What about acoustic guitar amps? [First Circle period]
Pat: I’ve got two Yamaha G100 preamps, with a Yamaha 300 watt power amp, 2 MXR digital delays, 1 Lexicon PCM 60 digital reverb,
1 model 95 Prime Time II Lexicon, Roland GR-300, Roland GR-700, Synclavier interface and Syndavier digital synthesizer and on the acoustic guitars I use a Lexicon 224X reverb, which is a really great sound.
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"I got to meet Pat in the dressing room after a Pat Metheny Group concert in 1978 in Westport, CT at the Player's Tavern and got to see his old ES175 with the one pickup removed and he let me check it out. I also bought an MXR digital delay after that since I asked him how he got such an ambient airy sound. He used the MXR & a Lexicon tapped delay in a
stereo setup with 2 Acoustic amps." [tho the guy may have analysed it wrongly]
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Metheny: The guitar is a Gibson ES-175, a '58, with one humbucking pickup. It goes into an MXR DDL, used essentially in the same way as you'd use an Echoplex - just barely on. That goes into my main amp, which is an Acoustic 134, my favorite amp in the world. So it goes from the preamp to the Acoustic 134 into a new product,
a Lexicon Prime Time digital delay, which I had modified slightly so that it's got a sine wave VCO instead of a triangle VCO. Then that splits that signal into two more signals, which are both delayed - into a Peavey amp on one side of the stage and another Peavey on the other side of the stage. So I essentially have three signals aimed at me - the direct signal, one delay at 14 milliseconds, and another delay at 26.
The Pat Metheny Group - Jazz's Foremost Garage Band
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Pat Metheny - Jazz Voice of the 80's Guitar Player, December 1981
Could you detail your amp setup?
My main amp is one I've had for about seven years, which I'm totally in love with - an Acoustic 134 with four JBL 10s in it. That's the first stage of the setup. I used to use Peavey amps as secondary amps, but they broke all the time. Now I'm using the new little Yamaha G-100 210, which sounds fantastic. So I go from my guitar into an MXR Digital Delay set for just a little bit of slap echo, then into the Acoustic 134, and from the preamp of the 134 I take a line into the input of the Lexicon Prime Time digital delay. The Lexicon splits it from mono into stereo. One side of the Prime Time, set at 14 milliseconds goes into a Yamaha amp, which then powers another 15" E-V speaker.[forgets to mention the other delay of 26ms?] Those two speakers are spread on either side of the stage, so that I'm kind of in the middle of those and the Acoustic. We also run everything through a Lexicon 224 Digital Reverb at the sound board. We also do the PA in stereo to take advantage of the stereo qualities of my stuff as well as the keyboards and bass, which are also run through individual Lexicon Prime Times.
You don't think it could all be incorporated into a single "Pat Metheny amp"?
No, because
the trick is to spread these amps all over the stage. I don't think you could get it from a single source. Sometimes I hear people playing through chorus effects, and I guess they're trying to simulate that sound. But to me, it just doesn't work. It sounds out ot tune.
You don't use any chorus effects in your own setups?
No. To me, the sound I get isn't a chorus sound at all. It's actually modulation happening at different times. With a chorus you do have some modulation going on, but it's basically mono. Even these new stereo chorus units don't make it for me. You've got to spread it out more than that to get that sound.
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Pat Metheny: Back then, it had to be two different Prime Times because the two different delay sides did not have discrete outputs. In order to spread the sound around the stage, there had to be two units. Now I use a TC electronics stereo box that David Oakes set up to do the exact same thing in a much more efficient way. / All three cabinets have a bit of reverb, so none are really "dry", but only the right and left are time modulated. / Left side 13 ms right side 26 ms both sweeping with a sine wave at a low depth and rate.
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In this vid it seems you can hear the effect channels only(?) for a minute:
Pat Metheny & John Scofield Quartet - You Speak My Language Pt 1 - YouTube
So a serious amount of reverb here (that may have been added on the board)
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There is a multitude of this kind of info to be found and in the end it can always be interpreted slightly differenty w regards in how to set it up, and he probably varied that himself.
Even as a perfectionist, I know that long time ago, I was already pretty happy when I put flatwounds on a very heavy solidbody guitar that I have, get tone and delay somewhat in the neighborhood, and *maybe* a slight chorus (I don't remember).
I have a WDW setup at the moment, so "some day" I hope to do some experiments