AXEFX Professor(s) help needed for MELLOTRON sound

D

DADA

Experienced
Please help me out on this one.

I have been experimenting a lot but can not figure this out. I really dig the sound of the Mellotron and I think it must be possible. With some Electro-Harmonix stuff it is possible so it must be possible with the Axe-FX. One of the difficulties here is that is must be polyphonic.

Here is the routing and settings of the Electro-Harmonix stuff. It sounds really cool!
http://www.ehx.com/forums/viewthread/1695/

Thanks to al the axe-fx pro's out here!
 
well why not start by copying the settings that bill has used to create his sounds. everything he used is available in the axe fx. and you know what order to put everything in as well. should be relatively simple, no?

flutes = comp > volume with input tied to envelope > filter > ad whammy with control tied to an lfo

strings/brass = comp > crystals > chorus > volume > plex detune > reverb

sim
 
I think the Axe-Fx has the tools to do this. Wait for Simeon ....he's the sound-scaping wizard over here.
 
thanks yek. i might have time tomorrow to have a little go. the strings/brass sound that bill made is a little generic, but it's ok. i think it would be hard to get something totally convincing without using the synth imo....but then it would be monophonic...fine for recording, if you can lay down one part at a time and build up the chords that way....

sim
 
This is a good challenge. But you need to provide a reference tone-- there are dozens of tapes for a mellotron. Are you talking strings? Flutes? Voices? Brass?
 
Glad some pro's are digging these sounds!

Like Simeon noted my question concerns the FLUTE (like in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJsZMMaPNuY ) and the STRING/BRASS (like in lots of King Crimson stuff). But if other ones are possible I would be positif surprised!

As mentioned I tried several settings based on the video of E-H. I did not even come close. I will try Simeon his advice of the suggested patch lay out. So thank you to Simeon. But if you guys can already compose a patch this would be very very welcome of course :).

Thank you all so far.

Best Regards
 
this is a tough one, especially if you want them to be polyphonic. i had a go at the flute sound, using my mellotron samples as a guide (i have lots of really cool ones - violins, violas, strings and brass, choirs etc etc)

i made an mp3 of the patch - mellotron first and then axe fx second

MTRON Flute

i'm not massively happy with this, so please have a crack at making it better - maybe more filtering and perhaps wider vibrato?

the tricky thing is, that each voice on the mellotron has it's own character - it's own vibrato, distortion, pitch variance etc. and it's impossible to get this effect with a polyphonic signal. the best way i can think of is to use both synths, giving four voices you can treat independently - giving them their own vibrato rates etc.

anyway, patch attached.

i might have a crack at the strings this week

sim
 
simeon said:
this is a tough one, especially if you want them to be polyphonic. i had a go at the flute sound, using my mellotron samples as a guide (i have lots of really cool ones - violins, violas, strings and brass, choirs etc etc)

i made an mp3 of the patch - mellotron first and then axe fx second

MTRON Flute

i'm not massively happy with this, so please have a crack at making it better - maybe more filtering and perhaps wider vibrato?

the tricky thing is, that each voice on the mellotron has it's own character - it's own vibrato, distortion, pitch variance etc. and it's impossible to get this effect with a polyphonic signal. the best way i can think of is to use both synths, giving four voices you can treat independently - giving them their own vibrato rates etc.

anyway, patch attached.

i might have a crack at the strings this week

sim
Click to expand...

Simeon RESPECT!

This is already miles closer then my own experiment! Thanks very very much. I will try tomorrow turning the advised knobs.

Much appreciated!

Hopefully these words inspire you a bit to make the string version also. :mrgreen:
 
listening to Bill's version again, i think his sounds a bit better than mine, although his is very different, it seems to capture the vibe better. i think i've tried to be too clever with the vibrato in my patch, with three different rates going on and some randomisation of the vibrato speed, so i may re-tweak tomorrow and make a slightly simpler version. i think the eq matches my samples quite well, but it still sounds too "guitary"

sim
 
Here's what I got so far.

It's a work in progress, I'm not too happy with the envelope controlling the volume, using an external controller might be easier/sound better.

try it with a neck humbucker
 

Attachments

  • Strawberry Mellotron.syx
    2 KB · Views: 194
I don't know nearly as much about how all this works as I'd like, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to learn. However, I'm confused just looking at how the attack is handled; Simeon uses a Vol/Pan block with an envelope controller on the level, while Don uses a Filter block in the same manner. Don said he wasn't happy with the attack for his patch, so I copied the Vol/Pan block from Simeon's in place of the Filter on Don's.

Now the attack sounds the same, but on Simeon's patch the sound continues even as the input level drops, and on Don's the sound is cut off fairly early. I have the noise gates are the same for both patches. What am I missing?
 
simeon = better at envelope tweaking, apparently :)

the release phase is something I was going to adress later, but your copy/paste approach is way more effective.
I got a little distracted last night and ended up with a second patch that uses a send/return setup and reverse delay to mimick a endless/frozen reverb sound. Lot's of fun but kinda off-topic.
 
DonPetersen said:
I got a little distracted last night and ended up with a second patch that uses a send/return setup and reverse delay to mimick a endless/frozen reverb sound. Lot's of fun but kinda off-topic.
Click to expand...

LOL! we've all been there...! :D

in my patch i didn't alter the default envelope settings in the controller section and i think don did, which is why even when you copy my volume block into his patch, it behaves differently.

sim
 
something I'm struggeling with is to get a long attack on every note.
on a synth I'd just turn up the attack of the amp envelope, so I guess linking a ADSR to level with long attack and low threshold should do it - but I still can't get it to work properly.

simeon, did you use a pedal in your clip?
 
no, no pedal. i just tweaked where i attached envelope to volume. i prefer using a pedal, as you can get more control.

sim
 
Based on the provided patch I solved the swell issue with a GateExp Block instead of Volume Block. So now we can concentrate on the sound of the flutes and strings. Important for the GateExp block is that it severely interacts with the Noise Gate under the Input

First issue solved! Thanks to ya all!

So now the sound, of the flute and the strings. How the hell can I get the strings/brass sound????
 
DADA said:
How the hell can I get the strings/brass sound????
Click to expand...

having played around a bit this afternoon, i'm of the opinion that it can't be done convincingly without using the synth block. i'd be happy to be proved wrong though!

have a listen to this patch i made- synth strings - quite string-like, i think. with some eq-ing and distortion it may be possible to get close, but it will of course, be monophonic.

here is a page to some samples which may be useful - http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/aphex/113/

sim
 
simeon said:
in my patch i didn't alter the default envelope settings in the controller section and i think don did, which is why even when you copy my volume block into his patch, it behaves differently.sim
Click to expand...
That's it-I forget about those settings. Thanks!
 
Hmm. About the strawberries.
On the EH example vid the guy is playing a sustained C note on the third string 5th fret(*), yet while it's ringing he plays two notes above it on the same string. While still sounding the C. Nice stretch BTW. But that C-note is a fraud.

Adding a compressor at the front does fatten the tone up. But it stays very guitarstringlike. Also, when you're holding the C-note the filter does not close, so you hear the attack on the other notes. Which is probably why it stays guitarstringlike. I highly doubt that the POG can separate those.

*) edit: It's a D-note at the 7th fret.


I have since found out that the video is not the same as the original audio recording. At least on youtube the maker of the video of another effectology vid says he just gets the sound files and description. So he must have shot that video afterwards.
 
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