Axe II - Sound Randomly Cuts Out?

[clarky]

jeez... I really don't like the sound of this at all....

so... does this mean that all AxeII / MFC units out there can be exposed to this?
but the reason that some do and some don't is some config thing either in the AxeII or MFC or both???
or could it be hardware related??

Q - when that sound cuts out is the Axe:
- changing patch?
- bypassing?
- switching X-Y?
- changing the master vol to 0 or almost 0?

when you guys suffer with this [in an off stage environment of course] please try to capture as much info as possible:
- what patch was you on and did it change?
- check your output volume [especially anthing that's MIDI controlled]
- check bypass state
- check anything that you can think off that the MFC could possibly have the ability to change

could it be that the MFC either:
- spits out some spurious MIDI that instructs the AxeII to change some parameter / bypass?
- or there is a switch / connection within the MFC that is 'chattering' on occasion and therefore sending some MIDI to the Axe on its own?

we need more information on this...

 

[Patzag]

Are you using a CAT5 cable between MFC and Axe ?
I have seen random behavior (with another vendors rig that I used for a long time) when the CAT5 cable gets torque in either end of the cable. This can cause the pins on cable and device jack to miss-align causing random outcomes. The dropping of tone (my old unit would go into manual mode) and fixing it by pressing the preset button on the MFC again is very similar to my past experiences.

That stated, I have not experienced this with my Axe-II and MFC, either at home or live. But I AM VERY CAREFUL to make sure the CAT5 is not binding and laying flat on the floor with no torque in the cable at a gig. Been flawless so far.

I have one of those mil-spec armored cat 5 cables. Never had a problem with it when I used it with my G System. But I'll investigate anyways.

 

[clarky]

Are you using a CAT5 cable between MFC and Axe ?
I have seen random behavior (with another vendors rig that I used for a long time) when the CAT5 cable gets torque in either end of the cable. This can cause the pins on cable and device jack to miss-align causing random outcomes. The dropping of tone (my old unit would go into manual mode) and fixing it by pressing the preset button on the MFC again is very similar to my past experiences.

That stated, I have not experienced this with my Axe-II and MFC, either at home or live. But I AM VERY CAREFUL to make sure the CAT5 is not binding and laying flat on the floor with no torque in the cable at a gig. Been flawless so far.

hmmm... my lil' brain don't understand that at all...
because, the cat5 is carrying digital information [MIDI]
for one device to make another device do 'something / anything' it needs to send an explicit MIDI message / instruction..
so if the cable was somehow broke [or partially broke and chattering], correct MIDI messages wouldn't be making it past the break to make the receiving device do anything at all..
I'd imagine that the spurious junk generated by the broken cable would:
A - be ignored by the recieving device
B - corrupt the messages you want to send so the receiving device don't respond

now if there was analogue stuff going on down the partially broke cat5 then stange state changes would make sense...

hmmm... not totally convinced.... but not an expert either.... so.. erm... dunno...

 

[teddis]

You know....this happened to me when I was switching a patch at a show last week......just put it to an anomoly.

I know ezactly where in the set list this occured. Will try to emulate this tonight.

 

[clarky]

I did a lil' further reading with respect to MIDI...

according to the specs... devices receiving MIDI must ignore messages that:
A - are not meant for it [intended for another device in the MIDI chain / loop]
B - are not understood [because they are either trying to do some fancy pants stuff the receiving device don't know how to do, or the message is malformed]

so based upon teddis' comment: could he have tried to change patch and the MFC sent out some perfectly good message/s that contain the wrong 'stuff'?
as in.... change patch.... and mute / CC#7=0 / CC#'something else but not what you intended'=change a parm that kills you on stage..

 

[Muzick]

I did a lil' further reading with respect to MIDI...

according to the specs... devices receiving MIDI must ignore messages that:
A - are not meant for it [intended for another device in the MIDI chain / loop]
B - are not understood [because they are either trying to do some fancy pants stuff the receiving device don't know how to do, or the message is malformed]

so based upon teddis' comment: could he have tried to change patch and the MFC sent out some perfectly good message/s that contain the wrong 'stuff'?
as in.... change patch.... and mute / CC#7=0 / CC#'something else but not what you intended'=change a parm that kills you on stage..

In my case, I didn't change a preset when this happened. My Axe II just stopped outputting sound while playing the guitar. Perhaps it was a delayed command from MFC101? Or just one randomly sent out without it being told to?

Hmm...

 

[clarky]

I doubt a delayed command... could be that the MFC 'thought' it was told to send out a message via a button or controller that you may not have touched but it got an electrical signal from maybe??

of course I could be thinking completely up the wrong tree here and something totally different is happening...
the only way you'll know for sure is if the clever fellas at Fractal manage to reproduce it, trace the MIDI and probe other bits and pieces within the MFC and / or AxeII..

ok so this is clearly a serious and embarrassing pain in the rear when it happens on stage [guys I so sympathise with you]..
but from purely an engineering standpoint it's quite interesting so I'd love to know what the root cause of this is..
and also to know if there is a better [and preventative] solution other than hitting the 'big red button'...

 

[nicolassal]

OK. I've tried a few things to replicate this problem. My firmware is 2.00c and I have firmware version 1.04 on the MFC 101 connected via CAT 5e.

It seems that when I am using the MFC 101, whether it be for banking or changing patches, this problem occurs. It does not happen consistently, but it happens about every 30th press of a button. I am almost certain that this has happened without me touching a thing, as well.

I tried disconnecting the USB cable without any change. I have tried different guitar cables and wiggling them in their jacks when this problem occurs.

I will try to disconnect the MFC 101 and use the wheel to see if it happens, then I will try to connect via MIDI cable. I will post my results. Currently I am connected via CAT 5e, and I have tried changing cables without any positive change.

Hopefully this helps.

Also, should this thread be in Axe FX II Bugs or MFC 101 Bugs?

Cheers,
Nick

 

[FractalAudio]

OK. I've tried a few things to replicate this problem. My firmware is 2.00c and I have firmware version 1.04 on the MFC 101 connected via CAT 5e.

It seems that when I am using the MFC 101, whether it be for banking or changing patches, this problem occurs. It does not happen consistently, but it happens about every 30th press of a button. I am almost certain that this has happened without me touching a thing, as well.

I tried disconnecting the USB cable without any change. I have tried different guitar cables and wiggling them in their jacks when this problem occurs.

I will try to disconnect the MFC 101 and use the wheel to see if it happens, then I will try to connect via MIDI cable. I will post my results. Currently I am connected via CAT 5e, and I have tried changing cables without any positive change.

Hopefully this helps.

Also, should this thread be in Axe FX II Bugs or MFC 101 Bugs?

Cheers,
Nick

When it happens try to figure out if the unit is going into bypass or if just one block is getting messed up. This was definitely a problem with earlier MFC firmware and we thought we had fixed it. I haven't replicated it here so I think it's got to be somehow related to the preset.

So when it happens, try bypassing blocks one at a time to see if it's one block getting messed up. It's possible that it's the amp block. Perhaps the comm between the two processors is getting interrupted when a message arrives and that's causing a deadlock or something.

 

[cobbler]

This happened to me some time ago and never reappeared. I just assumed it was an anomaly. I wrote down all the parameters when it did and am looking for it. I may have tossed it sadly.

 

[clarky]

When it happens try to figure out if the unit is going into bypass or if just one block is getting messed up. This was definitely a problem with earlier MFC firmware and we thought we had fixed it. I haven't replicated it here so I think it's got to be somehow related to the preset.

So when it happens, try bypassing blocks one at a time to see if it's one block getting messed up. It's possible that it's the amp block. Perhaps the comm between the two processors is getting interrupted when a message arrives and that's causing a deadlock or something.

out of curiosity, does this mean that the MFC is outputting a spurious MIDI message, or is the Axe not quite behaving when when a certain type of message with specific content arrives??

 

[Patzag]

Talk about a PITA! I tried to reproduce this the day before yesterday. Spent 10 minutes doing everything possible with the MFC plugged in. Changed patches, triggered loops, wah, volume changes, etc. Must have stomped on the machine 100 times at least. Left it on overnight, no issues. Worked perfectly!
Then I set up for my gig, sound check, set my initial patch and volume and put my guitar down ready to rock. 20 minutes later come on stage to play ... no sound! Arghhh! Luckily, just changing preset got me back to battery, but still.
Cliff: Let me know please what the bug was and what triggered it. I can check anything you want, but I can't seem to reproduce this on command. And during a gig, as the drummer is looking to me expectantly for the opening riff, is not the time to investigate if an effect is bypassed. Know what I mean?

 

[yek]

Talk about a PITA! I tried to reproduce this the day before yesterday. Spent 10 minutes doing everything possible with the MFC plugged in. Changed patches, triggered loops, wah, volume changes, etc. Must have stomped on the machine 100 times at least. Left it on overnight, no issues. Worked perfectly!
Then I set up for my gig, sound check, set my initial patch and volume and put my guitar down ready to rock. 20 minutes later come on stage to play ... no sound! Arghhh! Luckily, just changing preset got me back to battery, but still.
Cliff: Let me know please what the bug was and what triggered it. I can check anything you want, but I can't seem to reproduce this on command. And during a gig, as the drummer is looking to me expectantly for the opening riff, is not the time to investigate if an effect is bypassed. Know what I mean?

Does it always happen with the same preset?

 

[Scott Peterson]

Talk about a PITA! I tried to reproduce this the day before yesterday. Spent 10 minutes doing everything possible with the MFC plugged in. Changed patches, triggered loops, wah, volume changes, etc. Must have stomped on the machine 100 times at least. Left it on overnight, no issues. Worked perfectly!
Then I set up for my gig, sound check, set my initial patch and volume and put my guitar down ready to rock. 20 minutes later come on stage to play ... no sound! Arghhh! Luckily, just changing preset got me back to battery, but still.
Cliff: Let me know please what the bug was and what triggered it. I can check anything you want, but I can't seem to reproduce this on command. And during a gig, as the drummer is looking to me expectantly for the opening riff, is not the time to investigate if an effect is bypassed. Know what I mean?

Don't get mad at me, just asking: do you have the patch saved with the amp block in bypass perhaps?

 

[Patzag]

@Yek: Hum ... Not sure. I use only 3 presets for 95% of my work, so ... I'll have the check.

@Scott: Lol! No, I'm not mad. I'd even welcome the tech support idiot asking me if the machine is actually connected to the mains! But seriously, no. There's nothing obviously wrong with that preset. It's saved in full functioning mode, no weird bypasses or anything. It's the Wrecked preset I uploaded a while back. You're welcome to examine it.

 

[clarky]

out of curiosity... do you have any modifiers / controllers assigned to anything?
especially something that can alter things like level, gain, wet/dry mix, master volume, input trim etc.......

 

[Patzag]

out of curiosity... do you have any modifiers / controllers assigned to anything?
especially something that can alter things like level, gain, wet/dry mix, master volume, input trim etc.......

Yup! I have a delay on Ext 2 and Volume on Ext 1

 

[clarky]

ok.... so next time the volume cuts and you are in a suitable position to go look around, how's about taking a look at the values of these to parms you are controlling...
especially volume....

my guess - and note that it could be a bad one - is that the EXP1 pedal could move by a gnat's..
the MFC could detect this, but misrepresent the value and send a MIDI CC message to the AxeII with some spurious value.. like 0 or almost 0...
EDIT: you said that changing patch cured the prob.. now this would make sense because maybe you'd be changing to the default state of the next patch... which is volume up??

Q - are your EXP pedals correctly calibrated?
Q - are the cables that connect the EXP pedals to the MFC in good shape? [no crackling when you play audio through them and give them a wiggle]
Q - if you wiggled the jacks at the EXP end and then at the MFC end does the AxeII appear to respond to your wiggling?
Q - if you used the EXP as a normal volume pedal [guit->EXP->amp] and went from heal to toe and back do you hear crackling?

it may be none of this stuff... we're just eliminating things....

 

[Bakerman]

The volume block has Ext. 11 (not Ext. 1) as a modifier in that preset. Is your pedal actually set to the CC# of Ext. 11? I think that's CC#26 by default.

 

[CodePoet]

When it happens to me, changing patches doesn't resolve the issue, even to patches that don't have controllers assigned. I'm hoping to catch it again to where I can troubleshoot it.