Axe-Fx III Firmware 25.00 Public Beta (Cygnus X-3)

[jaycal6]

Yes, a soft reset resets the GEQ and SIC. "Reset AMP" does too.

Does the wiki section indicate otherwise? I don't see that. "However" relates to the note about maintaining authentic controls.

Yeah I read that previously but I still don't see the difference between "soft reset" and "amp reset within Manage Presets."

At the bottom of the 'Reset in the editor's Manage Preset Tool' in the Wiki explains the difference:

However, be aware that this method also will reset these AMP block controls:

• Graphic EQ
• Speaker Impedance Curve

 

[mr_fender]

Biggest difference is a soft reset only resets the current channel while the Reset AMP feature resets all the channels at once. With a soft reset, the amp's tonestack settings are retained if you have your Tone Control Display set to Ideal. If it's set to Authentic, those do get reset. The Reset AMP feature keeps those settings regardless of the Tone Control Display setting.

 

[tripulante.db]

why do we have to reset if it's already changing things when we update. why doing it in two steps when they can do it in one step.
It's not how we reset. It's when to reset

Let's see if this is how you understand it:
Imagine you have a real tube amplifier. The settings you always use it with are volume at 4, bass at 3, treble at 6 and MV at 5. One day you decide to take it to technical service for maintenance. The specialist installs new valves of better quality, changes a couple of capacitors and resistors that are out of range due to use, recalibrates the "Bias" and other internal parameters to get the best sound.
When the job is finishing, the technician hands it back to you and was careful not to alter your personal settings of Volume 4, Bass at 3, Treble at 6, and MV at 5. What a professional technician to have this detail with you! This is what Fractal does with this new firmware. Remaster and calibrate the internal electronics (which you don't see), so after applying the firmware, your device will probably not sound the same as before, despite maintaining the same volume and main equalization, so you will probably want to re-adjust them or not.

Now, having changed some internal components, the technician considers that some advanced parameters (which in AXE Edit you can see in the advanced menus) should be modified with respect to those that the equipment came from the factory and recommends new values for them. For these new advanced values to be applied to your preset, you must perform a reset of the AMP block. As long as you do not apply this "Soft reset" or "complete reset", you will not obtain all the sound improvements that the work of the technical specialist provides. Why aren't these changes applied directly with the firmware? Because the technician again respects those who decide not to alter their personal settings, although they will no longer respond in the same way and they would not be taking advantage of 100% of these improvements

I hope this example helps you understand the topic better.

 

[GlennO]

why do we have to reset if it's already changing things when we update. why doing it in two steps when they can do it in one step.
It's not how we reset. It's when to reset

That's a good question and there are various ways to try to understand it. Here's my attempt:

A preset contains parameters that the user can adjust and whose values are stored in presets. At the same time, the amp models that FAS develops have parameters that they adjust, most of which are hidden from us. The problem is there is a little bit of overlap between the two: parameters that FAS tweaks to improve amp model accuracy are sometimes parameters the user can adjust and which are stored in presets.

The dilemma for Cliff is: how to change those few parameters that he would like to tweak that are stored in our presets? The way he does this is by changing default values for those parameters.

So, how do you update your presets to get those new default values? The tool we have at our disposal is amp block reset. This will set parameters to the latest default values as determined by the firmware. Unfortunately, block reset is a brute force tool. It resets almost every parameter in the amp block, including ones you may have adjusted to get the preset to your liking.

Another complication is presets are stored in various places: in slots on your Axe-FX, in .syx preset files, in your amp block library. How do you update all of those? Yet another complication is there are various things you can do, like changing the amp type, that does a reset implicitly. I've tried to answer people's questions about this above by describing when resets happen and when they don't.

At this point, you're probably asking yourself if there's a better way. I'm sure Cliff is asking himself that too. It sure would be nice if there was a more precise reset that resets only the relevant parameters of the amp block to the new values, and it would be nice if that reset could be more automatic.

 

[austinbuddy]

AB, In earlier posts the powers that be on the forum of whom I have much respect for stated that if I had created a "New" preset on fw 25 from scratch that I would still have to perform a reset for the amp or amps and even other blocks. That doesn't make sense to me at all. If you start from scratch on a current fw and Axe edit is current and refreshed you should be able to start at a level playing field. Even Matt had mentioned what you have to do to ensure you have a completely clear preset to use. https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...00-public-beta-cygnus-x-3.202659/post-2538921
So confused about that

Well I always take what Fractal says as Gospel, but I seem to recall (bad memory?) seeing some post that Cliff hinted that in the final firmware CX3 he may “push” the new amp stuff out (so in beta the amp reset now is loading in the new data, but perhaps a final beta pushes that new data (no reset) when an amp block is added. So a new preset on a final CX3 firmware made from scratch in theory would not need any amp reset, but older presets amp blocks from prior firmwares still would - if that makes sense. But perhaps I am very mistaken. Kinda brain dead which may mean a bad idea for me to be posting! Just trying to answer that post…I know I will have to reset all TonePack amps for sure for any CX3 updates… but If I started a new TonePack on CX3 final firmare, no amp reset may end up being required because the amp block model will call up the new stuff when added.

 

[unix-guy]

Biggest difference is a soft reset only resets the current channel while the Reset AMP feature resets all the channels at once. With a soft reset, the amp's tonestack settings are retained if you have your Tone Control Display set to Authentic. If it's set to Ideal, those do get reset. The Reset AMP feature keeps those settings regardless of the Tone Control Display setting.

I think that's backwards.

With Authentic it resets tone controls, with Ideal it retains them...

Whether the basic tone controls are left untouched OR also return to default when performing a soft reset, depends on the value of TONE CONTROL DISPLAY in the Global Settings menu:

• When set to AUTHENTIC: a soft reset will also return Bass/Middle/Treble to their default values
• When set to IDEAL: a soft reset will not change the existing Bass/Middle/Treble settings.

 

[mr_fender]

Oh crap you're right. Sorry. Brain fart on my part. Editing my post.

 

[bkc]

Let's see if this is how you understand it:
Imagine you have a real tube amplifier. The settings you always use it with are volume at 4, bass at 3, treble at 6 and MV at 5. One day you decide to take it to technical service for maintenance. The specialist installs new valves of better quality, changes a couple of capacitors and resistors that are out of range due to use, recalibrates the "Bias" and other internal parameters to get the best sound.
When the job is finishing, the technician hands it back to you and was careful not to alter your personal settings of Volume 4, Bass at 3, Treble at 6, and MV at 5. What a professional technician to have this detail with you! This is what Fractal does with this new firmware. Remaster and calibrate the internal electronics (which you don't see), so after applying the firmware, your device will probably not sound the same as before, despite maintaining the same volume and main equalization, so you will probably want to re-adjust them or not.

Now, having changed some internal components, the technician considers that some advanced parameters (which in AX Edit you can see in the advanced menus) should be modified with respect to those that the equipment came from the factory and recommends new values for them. For these new advanced values to be applied to your preset, you must perform a reset of the AMP block. As long as you do not apply this "Soft reset" or "complete reset", you will not obtain all the sound improvements that the work of the technical specialist provides. Why aren't these changes applied directly with the firmware? Because the technician again respects those who decide not to alter their personal settings, although they will no longer respond in the same way and they would not be taking advantage of 100% of these improvements

I hope this example helps you understand the topic better.

Helo, tribulante.db! What an excellent explanation you've written! It's so good, that I wish I'd posted it!! Here's hoping you step in with your comments concerning any Fractal topic in the future! Well done! Cheers! - Brian Cooper, Shinkai Studio, Japan

 

[Stratoblaster]

Has anyone just reset their favorite amp and cranked it? What are ya feeling? How about an amp like the 6G4 SUPER?

I have an FM9 so it'll be a bit before I can try CX3 out so, yea, I live vicariously thru here...sad, I know, but there it is lol...

 

[JoKeR III]

There are likely aspects of the new algorithm that are applied automatically, but in my tests with the Nuclear Tone there is a difference in tone/feel between the non-reset model and the reset model (Hard or Soft reset) when all parameters are adjusted the same in both models.

This is the first FW in awhile where the new settings sound very different when applied to amps I use, which would be a good reason not to apply them automatically. Those who don't delve into the Advanced parameters may not notice as much of a difference, but I use a few of them consistently so any of the amps I've reset have sounded very different. Readjusting the Advanced parameters has resulted in the same basic tones as before but with more lows and low mids.

 

[James Freeman]

Are the new algorithms still being fine tuned for the next beta?

 

[yyz67]

EDIT: Reset the Amp (wiki) already seems pretty up to date (perhaps based on chris's/yek's latest investigations). But a table (showing all parms that do change) might make it more explicit as to what changes.


Okay, this reset shenanigans is now comedically-tragically off the chain.

I suggest we create, vet and maintain for posterity (probably in wiki):

1. A flowchart/decision tree (for when to do a reset as GlennO and others have mentioned)
2. A table to describe EXACTLY what happens for each reset action, for example based on Chris's detailed experiments. (I did discover that Auto Dyna-Cab Impedance doesn't change on soft reset).

Of course for a given FW, some parameters might be automatically overridden when a preset is loaded based on what Cliff determines is needed, but those tend to be the exception. Cliff mostly preserves saved preset parameter values allowing users to "reset" to potentially new defaults as desired.

An example table below based on some of chris's work and other comments. I'm grouping by Page on the unit not on AE as I consider the unit to be the master. This is JUST a sketch to illustrate - not guaranteed to be accurate! Don't kill the brainstormer. Key: auto = automatically happens with new FW, "-" = N/A, N = no change, Y = resets to default

Parameters / Scenario	As Is / No Reset	Soft Reset (select diff amp on channel)	Hard Reset (Channel "RESET")	AE MANAGE RESET (all channels + save)
Updated Amp Model FW Code	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
Hidden (non-exposed) Amp Parameters	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
FW-Specific Parameter Overrides (if any)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
Tone: Gain, Level	-	N	Y
Tone: Bass, Mid, Treble	-	N (IDEAL mode) Y (AUTHENTIC mode)	Y
Tone: Input Trim, Master Volume Tone: Bright, Presence, Depth	-	Y Y	Y Y
Input EQ: All	-	Y	Y
Output EQ: All	-	Y	Y
Preamp: Boost Type, Boost Level Preamp: all others	-	N Y	Y
Power Amp: NFB Compensation Power Amp: Auto Dyna-Cab Impedance Power Amp: all others	-	N N Y	Y
Output: Level Balance Input Select Bypass Bypass Mode Scene Ignore	-	N	Y
...
...

 

[weird guitar person]

Don't kill the brainstormer.

Words to live by.

 

[Larzz]

Helo, tribulante.db! What an excellent explanation you've written! It's so good, that I wish I'd posted it!! Here's hoping you step in with your comments concerning any Fractal topic in the future! Well done! Cheers! - Brian Cooper, Shinkai Studio, Japan

^THIS^

 

[Steven Persson]

Okay, this reset shenanigans is now comedically-tragically off the chain.

I suggest we create, vet and maintain for posterity (probably in wiki):

1. A flowchart/decision tree (for when to do a reset as GlennO and others have mentioned)
2. A table to describe EXACTLY what happens for each reset action, for example based on Chris's detailed experiments. (I did discover that Auto Dyna-Cab Impedance doesn't change on soft reset).

Of course for a given FW, some parameters might be automatically overridden when a preset is loaded based on what Cliff determines is needed, but those tend to be the exception. Cliff mostly preserves saved preset parameter values allowing users to "reset" to potentially new defaults as desired.

An example table below based on some of chris's work and other comments. I'm grouping by Page on the unit not on AE as I consider the unit to be the master. This is JUST a sketch to illustrate - not guaranteed to be accurate! Don't kill the brainstormer. Key: auto = automatically happens with new FW, "-" = N/A, N = no change, Y = resets to default

Parameters / Scenario	As Is / No Reset	Soft Reset (select diff amp on channel)	Hard Reset (Channel "RESET")	AE MANAGE RESET (all channels + save)
Updated Amp Model FW Code	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
Hidden (non-exposed) Amp Parameters	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
FW-Specific Parameter Overrides (if any)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
Tone: Gain, Level	-	N	Y
Tone: Bass, Mid, Treble	-	N (IDEAL mode) Y (AUTHENTIC mode)	Y
Tone: Input Trim, Master Volume Tone: Bright, Presence, Depth	-	Y Y	Y Y
Input EQ: All	-	Y	Y
Output EQ: All	-	Y	Y
Preamp: Boost Type, Boost Level Preamp: all others	-	N Y	Y
Power Amp: NFB Compensation Power Amp: Auto Dyna-Cab Impedance Power Amp: all others	-	N N Y	Y
Output: Level Balance Input Select Bypass Bypass Mode Scene Ignore	-	N	Y
...
...

Nice!

Why not just write "Resets to default" instead of "Y" and "No change" instead of "N"? Makes it a a lot easier to understand.

 

[yyz67]

Nice!

Why not just write "Resets to default" instead of "Y" and "No change" instead of "N"? Makes it a a lot easier to understand.

Thanks. I went around in circles about that but explicit is prolly better.

There could be two tables:

1. Ordered page/tab as my example (might be also good to have the page/tab as a separate column)
2. Grouped by which parameters change and which don't

Or perhaps better: one dynamic table that is sortable by column value.

 

[Johnkenn]

I love the new firmware, don't get me wrong. But I think everyone has to agree that factory and user presets using the GEQ sound somewhat off after doing a hard reset, which makes total sense.

I also understand that re-doing/tweaking the factory presets after every releases is a monumental task. However, with Cygnus X-3, I think an overhaul of the factory preset would be welcomed and warranted. This is a major release, not just a patch/point release. The factory presets are noticeably outdated (from FW 19, pre dyna-cab, pre x-3, pre a lot of things).

Even a refresh of the first hundred or so…don’t really need all the Star Wars presets…

Really, I just use them as a reference to show what was done in settings I don’t completely understand…or a cab I never would have thought of, etc.

 

[jaycal6]

EDIT: Reset the Amp (wiki) already seems pretty up to date (perhaps based on chris's/yek's latest investigations). But a table (showing all parms that do change) might make it more explicit as to what changes.


Okay, this reset shenanigans is now comedically-tragically off the chain.

I suggest we create, vet and maintain for posterity (probably in wiki):

1. A flowchart/decision tree (for when to do a reset as GlennO and others have mentioned)
2. A table to describe EXACTLY what happens for each reset action, for example based on Chris's detailed experiments. (I did discover that Auto Dyna-Cab Impedance doesn't change on soft reset).

Of course for a given FW, some parameters might be automatically overridden when a preset is loaded based on what Cliff determines is needed, but those tend to be the exception. Cliff mostly preserves saved preset parameter values allowing users to "reset" to potentially new defaults as desired.

An example table below based on some of chris's work and other comments. I'm grouping by Page on the unit not on AE as I consider the unit to be the master. This is JUST a sketch to illustrate - not guaranteed to be accurate! Don't kill the brainstormer. Key: auto = automatically happens with new FW, "-" = N/A, N = no change, Y = resets to default

Parameters / Scenario	As Is / No Reset	Soft Reset (select diff amp on channel)	Hard Reset (Channel "RESET")	AE MANAGE RESET (all channels + save)
Updated Amp Model FW Code	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
Hidden (non-exposed) Amp Parameters	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
FW-Specific Parameter Overrides (if any)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)	(auto)
Tone: Gain, Level	-	N	Y
Tone: Bass, Mid, Treble	-	N (IDEAL mode) Y (AUTHENTIC mode)	Y
Tone: Input Trim, Master Volume Tone: Bright, Presence, Depth	-	Y Y	Y Y
Input EQ: All	-	Y	Y
Output EQ: All	-	Y	Y
Preamp: Boost Type, Boost Level Preamp: all others	-	N Y	Y
Power Amp: NFB Compensation Power Amp: Auto Dyna-Cab Impedance Power Amp: all others	-	N N Y	Y
Output: Level Balance Input Select Bypass Bypass Mode Scene Ignore	-	N	Y
...
...

A table like this would be great!

 

[Dave Merrill]

Even a refresh of the first hundred or so…don’t really need all the Star Wars presets…

Really, I just use them as a reference to show what was done in settings I don’t completely understand…or a cab I never would have thought of, etc.

Or an amp I've never tried. Of course I can and do explore on my own too, but it's potentially interesting and informative to see what those more in the know came up with.

But ditto, not much interested in the special effects stuff.

 

[tripulante.db]

Having almost two weeks passed since the publication of this beta, I do not remember seeing comments regarding any possible bug or error, which speaks to the extremely robust code and the professionalism of the Fractal development team. Even more so if we take into account that a change in the Cygnus generation means a great leap in nothing less than the architecture of the emulation of the most important block of this wonderful black box.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next published version is already the official release...