Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

[mbrown3]

Whoa! I actually think this has been one of the best Kemper vs. Axe Fx threads I've read. OP seems very even handed in pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of both units and the forum members, Cliff included, have all been very balanced and civil. Don't think OP is trolling at all. GC and Sweetwater etc. do have free shipping on stuff. That's because they build the cost of shipping into the retail price structure. I know, managed a GC store for years. Fractal is a smaller company and Cliff didn't build shipping into the cost of the product. I run Gigwrx Labels, labels for pedalboards. We don't build shipping into our costs either. I was shocked to see what it costs to ship less than a pound of product in the US, but even more so for international! It's crazy!

I truly don't see it as a "money grab" on Fractals part. Especially considering I started on FW5 and I'm on FW18 now, have gotten about 100 amps, more Fx, new Drive blocks, better algorithms for Delay, Reverb, Rotary etc., more cabs, new Ultra Res cabs, etc. etc. etc. all for free since my purchase. If there was a "money grab" mentality at Fractal, these huge upgrades would have cost us a lot of $$.
What you will get with the purchase of the Axe Fx is an awesome forum with truly dedicated users that are very supportive and help us all get the most out of our box. You'll also get Cliff, the most tone driven maniac I've ever seen! His, and the rest of the FAS team ridiculous dedication to improving this product is awesome and they are listening to the user base to make improvements too!
I'm not a fanboy by any account. I know the Kemper does some great things and has produced some great tones. But at the end of the day, I've never felt better about any purchase I've ever made as far as money goes.
To the OP: FWIW, I'm a Clean, low gain, mid gain Strat player. Very little in the way of EFX. Reverb and delay mostly. I'm a tube junkie from way back and have been playing 35 yrs. the clean Fender/JTM/Plexi/Dumble etc. tones I get are amazing. Sold all tube gear and pedals and have never looked back.
Look up Tyler Grund here on forum, he's posted some great clean and driven low gain clips! May help you decide.

Try both if you can, but I can highly recommend the Axe Fx if not.

Good luck!!


Sent from my iPhone

Everything in your post is incredibly helpful...not just the info but the spirit in which you answered. THANK YOU.

 

[mbrown3]

One would think, yet again, did you read the whole thread ? Fractal's shipping cost are seemingly preventing the OP from buying one, which is the very reason we are discussing it.

Again, incorrect. Reading is hard.

 

[mbrown3]

• Buy Axe Fx
• Buy Kemper
• Do not buy MFC (yet)
• Evaluate both units
• If Axe Fx goes back, you're only out $30

Well, $60...shipping both ways. But this is probably what I'll do. I wanted opinions before doing that. Didn't know it was going to spark so much ire in the process (I don't mean from you). Holy crap.

 

[mbrown3]

To the OP....We have a lot in common. I too have the Egnater Modular gear (M4 and Mod 100). I also have an AxeFX and a Kemper. My thoughts on this...

-Both units do what they do and do it well. I've used the Axe a lot longer than the Kemper, and know it better. While the Axe is much deeper in it's capabilities, it doesn't have to be used that way. The Kemper is more limited but can be "simpler" to use. However, I sometimes find myself wanting the (almost) limitless tweak-ability of the Axe. I personally find both units easy to dial and you can do down the rabbit hole chasing tones on both of them....Or not. I agree with Cliff that the feel has improved a good bit with 18 Beta.
-The Axe sounds and feels better to me in the way I use it live which is Direct FOH and to a pwr amp and 4x12 cab on stage. The Kemper feels different and more "modeller" run this way.....to my ears.
-They both sound good in a studio environment. Again, the Axe has more flexibility here, but do you want/need that?
-The MFC is a no brainer for the Axe. The Kemper remote looks good too.
-The Axe works great with my tube amps in a 4CM or as FX only. Kemper works here too, but not as well IMO.
-I like having them both...But....I use the Fractal live all the time and rely on it more for recording as well.

This being said, you just need to try them both, as everyone else has said. No substitute for that.

Thanks...along with the other Road King user, this is great from someone coming from the same type of gear I am. Question: have you profiled the Egnater (any module) with both devices? How did they sound? Which was "better"?

 

[mbrown3]

I don't understand how you can letting a shipping cost have any impact on such a important purchase ..
but it sounds to me that you've already pretty much decided to buy the kemper .. so why argue about shipping cost ..

I mean no disrespect at all!!

it's just my honest respond, and I do not want to raise an argument

have a good one and good luck with whatever you decide

1. The shipping cost is NOT a deciding factor. I don't know how else to say that. I simply mentioned that it bothers me that it costs $80 to ship 20lbs worth of gear. The end. People got upset and started arguing about it, which makes me want to go with the Kemper just to avoid the discussion of the shipping costs more than the shipping costs themselves. It's not nearly as big of a deal to me as it apparently is to folks around here. Just a minor annoyance. It's not make or break for me, just one more point of data. But then, I've said that already numerous times and people seem to want to ignore that and turn it into something it's not.

2. I most certainly haven't decided to get the Kemper. I am being completely truthful when I say I am undecided. Coming into it, I was leaning a bit more to the Kemper just because I'm a more simple guy. But what I'm reading about v. 18 has me very intrigued, and it led me to think about the fact that the Kemper is much slower to receive updates, which in the long-run might be an issue. But I definitely am not coming in with an agenda. I truly want to gather the most info (that is not related to shipping) SO THAT I can make a decision.

 

[mbrown3]

I'm sorry, but to a certain point I have to agree with Luke. Not about the Troll part, I don't believe that.

But if you read the ops posts, especially relies to the forums points he always has an answer "why" he shouldn't get the axe and he should get the Kemper.
That's the way I read it. His mind was already made up-at least 90% say, and the forum goes thru all this to satisfy the 10%.

Not so cool IMHO. I am not being NEGATIVE-I am being HONEST. Lets not strat confusing the 2
Thank you very much.........

I appreciate the honesty, but this is 100% incorrect. In point of fact, after reading through this and the parallel thread on Kemper's forums, I'm now leaning a bit more toward the Axe, based on what I'm seeing about v.18. I'm not sure where you're seeing that I keep having answers as to why not to get the Axe and why I should get the Kemper. I have pros and cons for each, which I think I've outlined pretty well. It seems to me some folks are getting defensive because my choice might not end up the same as theirs.

 

[axes]

Buy the Axe.

/thread

 

[mbrown3]

Sometimes I can't help but feel that the most level headed of "discussions" about the two units really aren't anything but a sly way to market for the competition. You can't go and just say "this is why you should buy a KPA" BUT..... if you disguise your marketing in the form of what on the surface looks like an honest debate of features between the two units, then you can get your own competing product discussed in "enemy territory".

Perhaps other prospective Fractal owners go to these forums to try to read up a bit on the unit, and what do you see ? Why right on the first page discussion about the KPA and its features. Normally a manufacturers dedicated forum is full of nothing but users of that product but then amazingly you've got some mentions of the competition there.

I can't go and tell everyone on the KPA forums to buy an Axe, they'd just delete it in 5 minutes, but if I'm good, very good, I can present it like I'm a conflicted buyer, and for every reason they'd try to sell me why a KPA is right for me, I could counter with "well the Axe II does this....."

Clever, clever, clever.

You're right. I'm a marketing shill for Kemper.

Idiot. I wish there was an ignore function on here.

 

[chris]

You're right. I'm a marketing shill for Kemper.

Idiot. I wish there was an ignore function on here.

there is click their name, go to their profile and "Ignore User" is on the left.

 

[mbrown3]

If I understand your first post correctly, you want simplicity. I'd say go with the Kemper.
They both sound great, and I love my Axe-Fx II and have no plans to jump on to the Kemper train.
The advantage of Kemper is basically "instant tone", you simply browse through the big bank of profiles that people have posted on the Rig Manager, find the ones you like and save them to the Kemper.

Thanks...this whole post is helpful.

 

[mbrown3]

That's on you. With the exception of Fractal Audio employees, nobody here is trying to sell anything. We're posting our experiences and opinions, at your request, in an attempt to be helpful/informative.

My opinion is that you'd be happier with the Axe-FX in the long run. The complexity of the Axe can be completely ignored until it's needed. When you do need those features and flexibility, there's no way to magic them into the Kemper.

I asked for experiences and opinions about the units, not about the shipping. Thanks for the thoughts on the unit, though.

 

[axes]

Ok, I'm gonna add something useful, too.
I had the Axe Ultra, II, and now have an XL. I also had the Kemper.
The first time I've tried the KPA I really liked it, I thought it was much better than the Axe. Usable tones in a second without tweaking. Man, was I wrong...
In a very short time frame I started to notice how I couldn't really change the way the Kemper profiles sound... every tweak is like a post tweak, because the profiled amp's tone stack is not profiled. This is a very limited approach and definitely not flexible. Same goes for the effects - they're pretty good quality, but quite limited and nowhere near as flexible as the Axe.
If you have to money to go for an Axe II or XL, don't even consider getting the Kemper. I'm not a fanboy, I'm just realistic. Even with FW 17.04 I can dial in a great tone within 2 minutes with a quite mediocre listening system.

 

[mbrown3]

From Cliff:

mbrown3, you may not know this yet, seeing as your post count is low, but Cliff (the guy with the Fractal Audio avatar) is the man running the show for FAS and inventor of the AxeFx. Here he's saying the costs are directly from UPS and a dollar-for-dollar charge to the customer. This is about as definitive as it gets with regards to the whole shipping issue.

I think maybe a lot of folks posting here got a page or two into the thread and have continued to post re. shipping costs, which is to be expected on a forum I guess. I don't think people are intentionally harping on the issue. I'm posting this because it seems like you might've overlooked it when it was posted. So, hopefully now we can all move on.

Thanks, I'm just catching up to a lot of these posts. The shipping isn't nearly as much of a big deal for me as it seems to be for some of the jokers on here that keep posting about it. It's just an annoyance, not make or break. But, then, I've said that repeatedly already and folks seem to have ignored that fact. Thanks for the serious reply.

 

[mbrown3]

Yeah, the Road King II was a benchmark for me, the best all around rig I had for playing many styles of music through a single rig. There's a lot of that mindset in the Fractal Audio and Kemper units, and it is a great value to me.

If the shipping matters to you, then it does. No one should beat you up for it. I was injecting a possible different mindset that I thought might help remove non-musical barriers (and I am sure you took it as intended). If you can get past the shipping, I still say you ought to try both if at all possible. There is just no other way to really know except to try them both in your environment.

Either way, I hope you find your inspiration. The bright side is you have some awesome sounding gear already if you don't like either!!

Thanks, for your thoughts (all of them!). The Road King is what I use for most of my gigs these days. As much as I love the Egnater (most versatile "real" amp in the world IMO), it's not the most reliable amp in the world. It seems to go through tubes faster than the Road King, which has a lot more of them. The RK is a freaking tank, and the MOD50 is 50 watts and I miss that low end "chug" that I get with the RK. It's also the least "buzzy" and "mushy" sounding of all of the Mesas, IMO. But it's freaking heavy. And I just can't cart it around any more.

 

[mbrown3]

there is click their name, go to their profile and "Ignore User" is on the left.

Thank you! Done and done.

 

[mbrown3]

Ok, I'm gonna add something useful, too.
I had the Axe Ultra, II, and now have an XL. I also had the Kemper.
The first time I've tried the KPA I really liked it, I thought it was much better than the Axe. Usable tones in a second without tweaking. Man, was I wrong...
In a very short time frame I started to notice how I couldn't really change the way the Kemper profiles sound... every tweak is like a post tweak, because the profiled amp's tone stack is not profiled. This is a very limited approach and definitely not flexible. Same goes for the effects - they're pretty good quality, but quite limited and nowhere near as flexible as the Axe.
If you have to money to go for an Axe II or XL, don't even consider getting the Kemper. I'm not a fanboy, I'm just realistic. Even with FW 17.04 I can dial in a great tone within 2 minutes with a quite mediocre listening system.

Thank you...this is my biggest worry about the Kemper.

 

[axes]

Thank you...this is my biggest worry about the Kemper.

Cheers!
Trust me, it IS something to worry about. I thought the KPA would be the next great thing for me, but in a month or so I found myself selling it and getting an Axe II... never looked back since then.

 

[Simponimas]

seriously, if you can afford to buy an axe II, go for it
if you have the money to buy a kemper, save a bit and go for the axe II

 

[Rick]

Your post has caused me to do some more research on the current Kemper offerings, which I have not seriously researched since purchasing the first AFX. They've added quite a bit, option wise, and the option to get away from the odd "toaster-esque" appearance of the original unit are sure to be a plus. It was also apparent to me that the differences between the intention (or maybe focus is a better word) of each has become even more clearly defined.

Having looked a little deeper, I would still buy the Axe Fx first. It works more like my guitar to pedalboard to Road King rig in both concept and work flow.

On the subject of size and weight, I totally agree. I had both a 2x12 and a 4x12 for the RK, depending on stage size. All of it was in ATA road cases (the heavier 3/8" ones) and they were oppressively heavy! My Axe FX II rig, with stand, monitor, and all takes up the floor space of a vertical 2x12 cab and will literally fit in the back seat of my wife's Honda CRV, guitars and all. There's a set up pic of it here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/lounge/62436-compact-stand-option-working-great.html I definitely do not regret losing all that size and weight at every gig, and most importantly, I have even more great sound options. Your back is going to thank you!

I saw a video of a guy profiling an Axe Fx with a Kemper. They don't sound the same (use headphones) but it is interesting that it can be done and sound even reasonably good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxxeLa1fYKI is the link. I would love to play with one.

Anyway, just rambling. Back to my guitar!

 

[mbrown3]

seriously, if you can afford to buy an axe II, go for it
if you have the money to buy a kemper, save a bit and go for the axe II

Not an issue either way...more about finding the right unit for me. But thanks. I will wait for a free shipping promo though. ;-)