Axe FX II and Kemper Profiler (Yes, another one...please read!)

[joegold]

I really don't want to get involved in this thread, but it's got me wondering about how the Kemper profiles really work.
Note: I have no experience with the Kemper. Nada.

When the Kemper profiles a real world amplifier does that profile involve profiling every position of every knob on the amp (or at least a wide selection of knob positions)?
And when playing back the profiles, do the Kemper's own knobs faithfully replicate the real world amps' knob positions?

I always thought that these profiles were more or less static snapshots of one single setting of all the knobs and switches at once.

So, for example, if I wanted to use a profile of a Fender Twin with its Bright Switch on for a bright pop/R&B clean chording tone I'd have to use a profile of that amp that was taken with the Bright Switch engaged and with the gain set not too high and with appropriate settings of the 3 tone controls.
But I don't think that same profile would work nearly as well for a dark clean jazz tone that would normally be achieved by turning the Twin's Bright switch off and resetting its tone controls and gain.
I think I'd need a separate profile for the jazz tone, no?
And where would I go to get that profile if it didn't come stock with the Kemper or wasn't available as a purchase from Kemper or some 3rd party?

If I'm wrong about that, then I'd like to know a bit more about how they can accomplish that with a single profile.

But if I'm right about it, it's a BIG thing in the Axe's favour IMO.

While there are some amps simulated in the Axe that require separate amp sims to replicate the positions of various switches on a real-world amp, we can always use a single amp sim to replicate a very wide range of tones that that amp would also be able to achieve simply by turning the Axe amp sims' virtual knobs in the same way we'd turn the real knobs on the real amp.
E.g. My Fender Twin examples above can both be achieved with a single amp sim.

Or am I way off?

 

[axes]

Or am I way off?

No, you're 100% correct, and that's what I said before. The Kemper does not profile the tone stack, it only captures a snapshot of the current settings. Every tweak you do after making the profile is a post tweak and therefore not authentic and realistic. The main reason why I sold mine and got an Axe II instead.
To be fair: in some cases you can get away with the post tweaks, but in most cases I've found that a profile either sounds good or not. If it doesn't, you can't really do anything to work around it.

 

[axes]

This also should be noted: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...-axe-ii-vs-kemper-tone-better.html#post791183
And while I'm really not to bash the Kemper in any way, the Axe II is FAR superior in terms of component quality and overall professionalism.

 

[chris]

from what i understand, there is a very basic "amp" model and profiles are placed "on top" of it. from there you can adjust bass, mid, treble etc, but it's adjusting that basic amp model underlying everything. you aren't adjusting the profiled amp itself.

i could be totally wrong. but that's the impression i get from everything i've seen and been told about the kemper. if i am wrong, then any marketing materials didn't tell me the right thing

 

[axes]

from what i understand, there is a very basic "amp" model and profiles are placed "on top" of it. from there you can adjust bass, mid, treble etc, but it's adjusting that basic amp model underlying everything. you aren't adjusting the profiled amp itself.

i could be totally wrong. but that's the impression i get from everything i've seen and been told about the kemper. if i am wrong, then any marketing materials didn't tell me the right thing

Yes, you're on the right track. This is why profiles are merely "captured amps" or true "snapshots". They're more like EQ matching and a little something else.

 

[Bill Piersall]

So, can you run 2 profiles at once? Can you blend or morph between profiles without switching presets? I've had no experience with one either, but seems like crossfading between a Twin and a Plexi wouldn't be possible the way you can with the Axe.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[mbrown3]

That's rich.

Um...OK.

 

[axes]

So, can you run 2 profiles at once? Can you blend or morph between profiles without switching presets? I've had no experience with one either, but seems like crossfading between a Twin and a Plexi wouldn't be possible the way you can with the Axe.


Sent from my iPhone

No, you can't.

 

[mbrown3]

i just read the entire thread. i am NOT arguing here and i am not trying to start a fight. but i personally have been told that i don't know how to read and that my comments were basically wrong and off-topic. i simply have to respond to that by presenting facts.

i have to say, mbrown3 unfairly snapped at lqdsnddist and consequently at everyone else who discussed the shipping. here are the things he said about the shipping early in the thread, all of these from separate posts/responses:

You have too much time on your hands. I will say, none of what you quoted in any way represents that shipping is a deciding factor. Not once did I say or imply that it was. But kudos to you for taking things out of context to prove...what, exactly? That you know how to read? Good for you. We believe you.

 

[mbrown3]

I think OP handled things fine. He repeatedly said shipping wouldn't influence his decision, seemed forum members wouldn't let it go. To OP, if you have other questions, I'd surf forum a bit or start a new thread. This one took a weird curve somewhere and getting it back on track looks to be tough. I wish you luck and hope you find the info you're looking for.

Thank you.

 

[mbrown3]

love ya bill, but i disagree. he did not repeatedly say shipping wouldn't influence his decision, look at the first 9 quotes.

i'm done here. i just wanted to defend the fact that i know how to read i think everything in this thread stated about the Axe vs Kemper went really well and there is good information here.

people stopped talking about shipping after he specifically said it would not influence his decision, as i pointed out in my post above. that is, until i brought it up again.

i know how to read. others do too.

buy the axe.

False. Again. Every single one of my posts (minus the first one) re: the shipping were in response to someone else who kept bringing it up. But I guess your superior reading skills missed that, huh?

Ignored.

 

[chris]

You have too much time on your hands. I will say, none of what you quoted in any way represents that shipping is a deciding factor. Not once did I say or imply that it was. But kudos to you for taking things out of context to prove...what, exactly? That you know how to read? Good for you. We believe you.

cool man. we have a different interpretation and that's ok. i'm trying to show how it came across to myself and others, that's all.

thanks for keeping it civil and good luck on your search.

 

[mbrown3]

If I'm wrong about that, then I'd like to know a bit more about how they can accomplish that with a single profile.

But if I'm right about it, it's a BIG thing in the Axe's favour IMO.

That's my understanding, but I don't see that as (necessarily) in Axe's favor. The benefit of the Kemper is that it captures the tone 100% based on a specific set of amp settings. The downside is, the more adjustments you make, the less it sounds like the original amp. OTOH, the Axe gets like 80-90% close to the overall sound of an amp, but with all settings intact and functional so you can dial it in to the exact amp tone; the same way you can on a "real" amp. Different approaches, each with strengths. Just not sure which will be better for me. I love my amps. But if I sell one of them, then need to reprofile because I want to change settings, am I out of luck?

 

[strat714]

I LIKE CAKE!!!

 

[bammbamm]

That's my understanding, but I don't see that as (necessarily) in Axe's favor. The benefit of the Kemper is that it captures the tone 100% based on a specific set of amp settings. The downside is, the more adjustments you make, the less it sounds like the original amp. OTOH, the Axe gets like 80-90% close to the overall sound of an amp, but with all settings intact and functional so you can dial it in to the exact amp tone; the same way you can on a "real" amp. Different approaches, each with strengths. Just not sure which will be better for me. I love my amps. But if I sell one of them, then need to reprofile because I want to change settings, am I out of luck?

It's a big assumption that the Kemper captures 100% of the tone while the Axe gets 80-90%. Where did you get that? Because it's as if you already tried both.

 

[mbrown3]

It's a big assumption that the Kemper captures 100% of the tone while the Axe gets 80-90%. Where did you get that?

Sorry...I'm not using exact figures, more just clarifying my (admittedly limited) understanding of how each device creates models. Both can get there 100%, but the Kemper gets there right away (by taking an exact snapshot of the tone, including all settings) and the Axe gets there 80-90% (to start with, in terms of general amp models) and then you can adjust the settings and tone controls to get to 100%. The downside for the Kemper is that, while it gets there right away, the more you tweak it the less it sounds like the original amp. The downside for the Axe is that it takes a bit of tweaking to get it to 100% (though frankly I don't see that as any different than what we do with amps themselves in the first place). My understanding is based on what I've gleaned from both these threads and the product literature, but it certainly could be misinformed. It also wasn't meant as a criticism either way...more to highlight the different ways each device approaches the issue.

 

[Chronos]

i know how to read.

You sure? Part of knowing how to read is the application of hermeneutics. You made a large number of quotes taking small parts of what has been said, which leads me to believe it was not properly done so in full context.

we have a different interpretation and that's ok

Which an error in interpretation is a sign of poor reading and resulting from your fallacy in quoting out of context.

 

[bammbamm]

Sorry...I'm not using exact figures, more just clarifying my (admittedly limited) understanding of how each device creates models. Both can get there 100%, but the Kemper gets there right away (by taking an exact snapshot of the tone, including all settings) and the Axe gets there 80-90% (to start with, in terms of general amp models) and then you can adjust the settings and tone controls to get to 100%. The downside for the Kemper is that, while it gets there right away, the more you tweak it the less it sounds like the original amp. The downside for the Axe is that it takes a bit of tweaking to get it to 100% (though frankly I don't see that as any different than what we do with amps themselves in the first place). My understanding is based on what I've gleaned from both these threads and the product literature, but it certainly could be misinformed. It also wasn't meant as a criticism either way...more to highlight the different ways each device approaches the issue.

I use a different metric. The AxeFx gets you 100% of the tones available on an amp on a single amp type on the Axe. It's already all there. With the Kemper, you get a fraction of a percent of the amp per profile since it's a snapshot. The tone stacks don't accurately mimic the real thing. But I say go for the Kemper since you already are set on it. Definitely, just do it.

 

[chris]

it takes a bit of tweaking to get it to 100%

curious: 100% what? to match a particular tone you are trying to copy from an album or something? or 100% to sound like a real amp? or 100% to sound like "what you want it to sound like"?

it's a bit unfair to the Axe to say the Kemper get it 100%, because you don't account for the time spent making the actual amp sound like what you want first. yes?

i loaded FW18 beta the other day, then put on the first amp, happens to be a marshall, and picked a cab. i made ZERO changes to any settings and i got a 100% usable tone immediately.

not defending anything. but a real amp or modeler is never 100% immediately of course. you have to change the knobs and parameters to get what you want. if you then profile it with a Kemper, cool, but you did spend some time before that.

 

[chris]

You sure? Part of knowing how to read is the application of hermeneutics. You made a large number of quotes taking small parts of what has been said, which leads me to believe it was not properly done so in full context.

Which an error in interpretation is a sign of poor reading and resulting from your fallacy in quoting out of context.

hello. nice to meet you. thank you for continuing this discussion.

"which leads you to believe"? does this mean you are judging my approach without reading the entire quotes yourself? it is possible to quote many things and shorten them while maintaining the integrity of the original longer message. but it seems you may not know for sure.

i could very easily have posted the entirety of the quotes, but that would have been too long.

"I'm simply not paying $80 to ship 20lbs of gear, no matter how "worth it" people think it is." <-- not sure what context would do for those words, for example.