AXE 8 VS. Helix GAME Over!!!

RAC12 seems to do a very nice job of giving you live tweak knobs, but it's an add-on. I do agree, though, that as a standalone unit, the Helix looks to be a far better choice for those who want an all-in-one that is designed for tweaking on the fly.

I'm guilty of griping about not having more/better immediate knob access to the AxeFx amp tone controls (though it seems FX8/AX8 have mitigated this problem somewhat), so I'd have to be honest and say that this aspect is a win for Helix. Now, if Fractal were to jump into the iPad/iPhone/Andriod wireless AxEdit game, well, that would certainly change things IMO. But as it stands, on the fly live user interface may be one of the few areas that Helix is preferable.
 
You guys crack me up. I make edits on the fly with the AxeFX II all the time. It's really not that hard! The screen and menu system is certainly not as convenient as it could be, but it's a piece of cake to make edits. Take the time to learn your gear.

The Helix interface looks great. L6 did a really nice job on that. Clearly one of the areas where the product really shines. I'm glad to see them making strides and redefining what a floor-unit interface should look like.

The AX8 looks to have some improvements within the context of existing Fractal products. It's clear that FAS did not step back and totally redesign an interface from scratch. I suspect it was a business decision not to radically redesign the interface, but that's a totally uninformed guess on my part.

Axe-Edit is great and all, but I rarely use it. Learn to edit the unit from the hardware and you will never be stuck when you don't have the computer interface as a crutch in a rehearsal or a gig.
 
ethomas1013 said:
You guys crack me up. I make edits on the fly with the AxeFX II all the time. It's really not that hard! The screen and menu system is certainly not as convenient as it could be, but it's a piece of cake to make edits. Take the time to learn your gear.

Axe-Edit is great and all, but I rarely use it. Learn to edit the unit from the hardware and you will never be stuck when you don't have the computer interface as a crutch in a rehearsal or a gig.
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No point cracking up. It's not that funny :)
Sure, I could of course put in a lot of time learning how to tweak all the parameters in my axe-fx, actually I believe I have put my fair share of time doing just so. I'm just saying it never was an easy task for me. To a point where I'd rather play with wrong setting instead of fixing it. And to be quite frank, I'd rather spend more time playing guitar than being stuck with my nose in a LCD screen:)
 
ethomas1013 said:
You guys crack me up. I make edits on the fly with the AxeFX II all the time. It's really not that hard! The screen and menu system is certainly not as convenient as it could be, but it's a piece of cake to make edits. Take the time to learn your gear.

The Helix interface looks great. L6 did a really nice job on that. Clearly one of the areas where the product really shines. I'm glad to see them making strides and redefining what a floor-unit interface should look like.

The AX8 looks to have some improvements within the context of existing Fractal products. It's clear that FAS did not step back and totally redesign an interface from scratch. I suspect it was a business decision not to radically redesign the interface, but that's a totally uninformed guess on my part.

Axe-Edit is great and all, but I rarely use it. Learn to edit the unit from the hardware and you will never be stuck when you don't have the computer interface as a crutch in a rehearsal or a gig.
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When I had the Axe FX 2, I only ever used the unit to do editing on (which always struck me as being fairly logical for what it was; but then again I wasn't playing live and trying to do adjustments on the fly). But it doesn't matter, the Helix is better. It just is. That isn't disputable. Of course in terms of nearest Fractal competitors, the Helix should be compared to the Ax8 anyway, not the rack units. And it's certainly possible that Fractal could have designed a comparable interface to the Helix on that. We already know that something like increasing the gain on an amp will be a simple turn knob away on the AX8. Modifying parameters like reverb mix will probably be a bit of a menu dive, although that's completely up to the programming. There are certainly enough knobs to make things easily within reach if that was a priority. But I've always gotten the impression that Cliff thinks about amp models first and everything else a distant 2nd :D
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Austin
 
I have my computer besides my Axe rack at home. If I need to tweak I don't even 'wake up, input password, pause Axe edit, etc) I go straight to the front panel!
 
ethomas1013 said:
ou guys crack me up. I make edits on the fly with the AxeFX II all the time. It's really not that hard! The screen and menu system is certainly not as convenient as it could be, but it's a piece of cake to make edits. Take the time to learn your gear.
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Way to go. Assuming that this is because nobody learned to use the front panel. Yeah, I'm totally fluent with editing on the front panel and do the majority of my tweaking that way, and have for years. ABCD knobs just don't cut it, sorry. That's not the problem.

You see, I play mostly live, and many times in new rooms that are so kind as to NOT accommodate the bands with enough time to set up and do a proper sound check. (And some bandmates tend to be notoriously late getting set up.) So literally, I can be flying by the seat of my pants for the first few songs until the band's performance level and stage mix settles in. We all need to pay close attention, listen to ourselves and each other, and it just sort of happens...and unfortunately it NEEDS to happen this way, not by our choice (thankfully the $$$ is decent!). So, yeah, you can be damn sure that for the first 10-15 minutes of these type of gigs, easy, immediate access to certain parameters is a big frigging deal. Meantime, the guitarist on the other side of the stage just reaches over to his traditional amp, casually and quickly makes his adjustments and he's done. So yeah, that's the deal.

If I have a 2 bar break early in set one, I may need to tweak a couple global EQ settings, or a Global amp block's tone, or a reverb blend, or what have you. Doing this while making necessary Scene & preset changes makes it even more difficult. I know where everything is on the front panel of the AxeFx and how to use it. It's just not that easy to make critical tone/mix adjustments on the fly, within just a few seconds, trying to be inconspicuous, and the band isn't going to stop performing just so I can cut a problem bass frequency 4 db.

No sense in getting into this any further as it's been well-discussed on this forum long ago, but it was this type of ongoing REQUEST for a FAS solution that caused a forum member to fully develop and fabricate a 1 rack unit to solve the problem, and that many AxeFx owners have purchased.
 
No need to keep defending your axe-fx, guys. It's a great unit. I simply stated that the Helix is also good, and in my case, works better for me.
Will the AX8 be just as good? No idea, until I've tried one. Probably earliest mid 2016 (I live in Norway).
As for editing live, it's pretty obvious that the Helix is superior to a rack unit....that I in most cases even can't access, because it's behind a keyboard player in a rack somewhere on a stage. So even if was a devil at programming this unit from the front, it wouldn't really help me much.
 
Kensington said:
Don't take me wrong. I dig my axe. It was just unbearable to work with in a live situation. Need more gain? Just a minute, I'll run to my hotel room and get the mac and open Axe-edit :p
Hopefully (and probably) the AX8 will be a LOT easier to use than the axe-fx, but it really feels like a different world, editing in Helix compared to fractal. 2015 compared to 1990.
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AX8: Need more gain? Reach down and turn the dedicated lighted knob. Yeah, that's pretty simple. ;-) And I say that as a Helix owner who will be getting an AX8. Fortunately, got the Helix later than the first wave and have 45 days so I'm taking my time and letting others suffer the initial issues. With the last update and some things sorted out by others, I'm getting some nice sounds now. I haven't been able to plug in for a week though and unless I get 10 minutes with it tomorrow, I MIGHT get lucky and have a shot Wednesday...
 
I'm curious about both Helix and AX8, although for existing AxeFx owners, the AX8 is almost already a known commodity as it will sound like and AxeFx and function much like an FX8. In the end, user interface preferences aside, at the +$1200 price point, it would be mostly about the quality of the tones and effects above all. To this point, based on user feedback, recordings, etc., Helix is still just nipping at the heels of Fractal and Kemper, but not quite there it appears. Remains to be seen if they do get there, and if they do, by that time Fractal will probably be close to unveiling a new flagship anyway (guessing over a year away or so). JMHO
 
jimfist said:
Way to go. Assuming that this is because nobody learned to use the front panel. Yeah, I'm totally fluent with editing on the front panel and do the majority of my tweaking that way, and have for years. ABCD knobs just don't cut it, sorry. That's not the problem.
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It's true for a lot of AxeII users - sorry to assume you were one of them. I'm surprised at how many people on this forum have said they only edit with Axe-Edit and don't use the front panel and are unwilling to do so.

jimfist said:
No sense in getting into this any further as it's been well-discussed on this forum long ago, but it was this type of ongoing REQUEST for a FAS solution that caused a forum member to fully develop and fabricate a 1 rack unit to solve the problem, and that many AxeFx owners have purchased.
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Yes, agree - it's been beat to death, sorry to go on about it.

jimfist said:
I'm curious about both Helix and AX8, although for existing AxeFx owners, the AX8 is almost already a known commodity as it will sound like and AxeFx and function much like an FX8. In the end, user interface preferences aside, at the +$1200 price point, it would be mostly about the quality of the tones and effects above all. To this point, based on user feedback, recordings, etc., Helix is still just nipping at the heels of Fractal and Kemper, but not quite there it appears. Remains to be seen if they do get there, and if they do, by that time Fractal will probably be close to unveiling a new flagship anyway (guessing over a year away or so). JMHO
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You hit the nail on the head. The only reason for me to switch would be the interface. AX8 is a known commodity and although I did hear a lot of things to like about DaveE's Helix, I didn't hear anything in the Helix that would make me want to switch and I did hear some things that I did not like (maybe the new FW update has fixed some of that?). I don't need multiple amps or an audio interface so those features of Helix are non-issues for me.

Regardless, I'm glad to see L6 pushing the envelope with regards to the UI and improving their tones. Better products from competitors mean that everyone has to step up their game or get left behind. Tis a good thing.
 
In one of my bands, I play with another guitarist. He recently purchased a Helix, and last night's rehearsal was my first exposure to it. The Helix actually sounds really good. It has some characteristics that don't resonate with me, but the tones are great. It's not going to convince me to switch from my AxeFX, but I'd say it's a good platform that has some promise, and with a few more FW updates would be a viable pro-level choice. My friend runs it through a Line6 l2t powered cabinet, which I think helps the system sound better. It's a little peculiar to me that if you use the digital connection between the units, you can't engage the master EQ on the Helix (!); it's apparently only available on the analog outs. You do still have access to EQ as a block within the presets, but you can't apply a master signal EQ when using the digital feed.

For me, the real litmus test of good modeling is the "just a little hair on it" tone, with a slightly broken-up tone. Most modelers can nail a really high-gain distortion tone, but it's more challenging to produce a nice slightly driving sound. The Helix does that nicely, and it seems really responsive. Some of the effects (especially modulation effects) seemed grainy. I wanted the phaser to be toothier; maybe that's something that can be tweaked. I didn't attempt to create any patches on the unit.

I don't use my AxeFX in the band in which we play together. That's because in the context of this band, I'm playing baritone guitar, so I just use a small pedalboard and a Quilter 2x10 Aviator amp. We haven't had time to do any sort of A/B between the AxeFX and Helix. That's a project for sometime in the near future. I secretly think he's going to wind up wanting an AxeFX before it's all over. I'm a little biased, but it's based on having 18 months with my system and really learning to finesse the tones I hear in my mind's ear. He's had the Helix for less than a month, so I want to give him a few more weeks (at least) to really dig into his system. I'll post a side-by-side review when we get around to doing a shootout.
 
I am quite relieved to have got rid of the Helix.....the sounds simply are not in the same Ballpark as the FXII...BUT....I actually would have been ok with that. You see the main reason I wanted the Helix was to use as a Live Gigging unit - something that was quick and easy to set up and get running. The AXE is admittedly quicker than a head and pedalboard etc ....but every wire or connection saved is a good thing. So for me the supposed "pros" of the Helix weren't quite as obvious as the Hype would have led us to believe. Yes it had a big screen on it...and was quick to set up.......but personally I struggled with it a bit...I should have probably read the manual. I was genuinely worried about the longevity of certain of the controls - the Volume control in particular looked a bit exposed to me....and I know I would have kicked it during a gig - so I would have needed to defeat it........making it less convenient than the AXE.......I know it had the built in Expression pedal .....but it wasn't sprung , like my preferred pedals (Mission) - and it felt a bit cheap - plus I hated the "hidden switch" - there were quite a few parts of the Helix that didn't feel as high quality as the rest of the unit...I think the toggle switch will be a failure point...

The lack of some modulated delays was also a big issue for me - but something I could work around......but the final nail in the coffin was the three total "black screens of Death I experienced" combined with a number of mid- change lock-ups......I simply didn't feel like I could trust it at a gig.......

So I will wait for the AX8 and pair it with a Mission pedal...and hopefully that will be the dream rig.
 
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When someone tells how to do something on the axe, we are suddenly defending it. Nice.

Obviously if your Axe is far away, the Helix all-in-one will be easier in comparison to adjust parameters.
 
i liked the helix form factor..footprint...screen and flow as well as in/out options and midi integration...even the effects were nice to me... but where it fell flat is the amps and cabs...its that simple... if the ax8 had the helix form factor and versatility it would be out of this world...but likely 2k...and then yes out of my world....literally. So if the interface is not as pretty or the flow not as interesting but the amps and cabs stellar(to my ears) I am all in...I think the green screen is dated but the lighted knobs are cool..
 
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