AXE 8 VS. Helix GAME Over!!!

To quote Mr Petty: "The waiting is the hardest part." Checking my emails several times a day and reading this forum looking for clues when my name will be up on the list. Aarrgghh.

I found a local guy who offered to let me come over an test out his Helix. So I did. It was pretty impressive on several levels... bells and whistles. Better than the HD500x I had for a few days, but it still had hints of the fizz on the higher gain settings that so turned me off from the HD500X. I am sure I could live with the clean sounds and the delays, reverbs, and modulation effects, but the overdrive pedals were not as impressive.

I started hearing complaints on the internet about sqweekie pedal, difficulty in updating firmware, and the one I was observing blanked out in the middle of tweeking and had to be rebooted.

Also, while the routing and squibbles are cool, I question the knobs ability to hold up after a year or so of tweeking.

Anyway, I watched several YouTube demos and almost went over to the dark side. But I am back, impatiently waiting for my name to come up on the waiting list. Many years ago I had the Boss GT8 when I bought an Ax Ultra - it was night and day improvement.
 
BOOM!

I have picked up a Helix while waiting for my AX8, I have a gig at the end of the week that popped up and I didn't have anything to use.

So... after nearly 8 years of exclusive use of FAS products and the first time I have EVER owned a Line 6 amp modeler of any kind I break my silence and comment with a quick and basic honest non-bashing thoughts of the competition. Oh and for the record I don't work for line 6 and I didn't receive any payments or crap like that ok so there's that.

After a week of using the Helix and spending some time with it and you have to spend time with it, I too will say that there is an upper end fizz that is recognizable in "some" of the amp models. I will also say that I was able to dial out a lot of it and get a more natural sounding tone so overall it sounds pretty good. I would also like to add that the feel is there under your fingers this is something that I was looking for as I never really felt it in the POD series units when demoing them. Cab sims sounded good and are pretty straightforward and easy to deal with.

The user interface is really cool! easy to use and understand, I was able to edit existing presets without having to read a manual. I like the scribble strips but to be honest after a while I don't really see them and find myself focusing on the colored button instead, I like the color coding to identify effects much faster to find there location in the dark.

Assigning a button's location is a snap with the touch sensitive buttons... simply touch the button you want moved, then touch and hold the button you want to go to... done. Building presets from scratch is not that hard and I found it to be pretty intuitive again without have to read a manual. I did try the DVI using my JTV 59 that was pretty cool as well though I did notice things sounded thinner using this method of hookup for the guitar vrs a regular guitar cable. Having the ability of assigning CC's to the JTV's knobs was very cool!

I said quick so there it is... There is a lot of other things that I haven't messed with like the looper and effects loops mic input etc etc. I may do that later or I may not.

Some of you might disagree with me on this and that's fine, it's all subjective right? I'm looking at it from the point of view as a usable tool and the Helix is a usable tool plain and simple. The Helix offers a lot of conveniences that the AX8 does not but I also feel that it was designed to target different type of player with the different options it has, options are good!.

Now... the sentence that everyone is waiting for. If I had to pit the Helix against the AX8 which I don't have just yet, based on my knowledge of having used an Axe FX for so long in the context of a full band I seriously doubt you will hear the differences between the two after having spent time with either device. Having said that, on their own under a critical listening environment I would have to give the nod to FAS. I think the FAS algos are superior in this respect with more depth and clarity in the note structures and harmonic content.

So, there it is my take on the Helix after having been a FAS Fan Boy, Kool Aid drinker whatever you want to call it for so long and really not a line 6 user until now the Helix is a contender to the right person and I feel has earned a place in the music industry, I'd say it's more like game on not game over, well done Line 6 it's about time!.
 
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BOOM!

I have picked up a Helix while waiting for my AX8, I have a gig at the end of the week that popped up and I didn't have anything to use.

So... after nearly 8 years of exclusive use of FAS products and the first time I have EVER owned a Line 6 amp modeler of any kind I break my silence and comment with a quick and basic honest non-bashing thoughts of the competition. Oh and for the record I don't work for line 6 and I didn't receive any payments or crap like that ok so there's that.

After a week of using the Helix and spending some time with it and you have to spend time with it, I too will say that there is an upper end fizz that is recognizable in "some" of the amp models. I will also say that I was able to dial out a lot of it and get a more natural sounding tone so overall it sounds pretty good. I would also like to add that the feel is there under your fingers this is something that I was looking for as I never really felt it in the POD series units when demoing them. Cab sims sounded good and are pretty straightforward and easy to deal with.

The user interface is really cool! easy to use and understand, I was able to edit existing presets without having to read a manual. I like the scribble strips but to be honest after a while I don't really see them and find myself focusing on the colored button instead, I like the color coding to identify effects much faster to find there location in the dark.

Assigning a button's location is a snap with the touch sensitive buttons... simply touch the button you want moved, then touch and hold the button you want to go to... done. Building presets from scratch is not that hard and I found it to be pretty intuitive again without have to read a manual. I did try the DVI using my JTV 59 that was pretty cool as well though I did notice things sounded thinner using this method of hookup for the guitar vrs a regular guitar cable. Having the ability of assigning CC's to the JTV's knobs was very cool!

I said quick so there it is... There is a lot of other things that I haven't messed with like the looper and effects loops mic input etc etc. I may do that later or I may not.

Some of you might disagree with me on this and that's fine, it's all subjective right? I'm looking at it from the point of view as a usable tool and the Helix is a usable tool plain and simple. The Helix offers a lot of conveniences that the AX8 does not but I also feel that it was designed to target different type of player with the different options it has, options are good!.

Now... the sentence that everyone is waiting for. If I had to pit the Helix against the AX8 which I don't have just yet, based on my knowledge of having used an Axe FX for so long in the context of a full band I seriously doubt you will hear the differences between the two after having spent time with either device. Having said that, on their own under a critical listening environment I would have to give the nod to FAS. I think the FAS algos are superior in this respect with more depth and clarity in the note structures and harmonic content.

So, there it is my take on the Helix after having been a FAS Fan Boy, Kool Aid drinker whatever you want to call it for so long and really not a line 6 user until now the Helix is a contender to the right person and I feel has earned a place in the music industry, I'd say it's more like game on not game over, well done Line 6 it's about time!.



Could not agree more! If I don't get my invite soon.... I'm going to be forced to buy another Helix, because soon I have gig's in 2 different city's that is going to require 2 systems. I'm on the Waiting list from the first day with in the first 2 hrs? and still waiting on the invite 4 months later.

only thing I'd add to your Great Helix "honest review" .... I really prefer the Ownhammer IR's with the Helix.... that took the overall "Helix experience" to the next level for me!!
 
Well put. And reflects my own observation on the Helix as well... It's definitely for real. Just as real as AX8, Kepmer, AxeII.... real quality and a viable pro product. It's feature set is attractive to many, just like the AX8's feature set is attractive to many.

My AX8 sounds great, so does my Kemper and my buddy's Helix....
 
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BOOM!

I have picked up a Helix while waiting for my AX8, I have a gig at the end of the week that popped up and I didn't have anything to use.

So... after nearly 8 years of exclusive use of FAS products and the first time I have EVER owned a Line 6 amp modeler of any kind I break my silence and comment with a quick and basic honest non-bashing thoughts of the competition. Oh and for the record I don't work for line 6 and I didn't receive any payments or crap like that ok so there's that.

After a week of using the Helix and spending some time with it and you have to spend time with it, I too will say that there is an upper end fizz that is recognizable in "some" of the amp models. I will also say that I was able to dial out a lot of it and get a more natural sounding tone so overall it sounds pretty good. I would also like to add that the feel is there under your fingers this is something that I was looking for as I never really felt it in the POD series units when demoing them. Cab sims sounded good and are pretty straightforward and easy to deal with.

The user interface is really cool! easy to use and understand, I was able to edit existing presets without having to read a manual. I like the scribble strips but to be honest after a while I don't really see them and find myself focusing on the colored button instead, I like the color coding to identify effects much faster to find there location in the dark.

Assigning a button's location is a snap with the touch sensitive buttons... simply touch the button you want moved, then touch and hold the button you want to go to... done. Building presets from scratch is not that hard and I found it to be pretty intuitive again without have to read a manual. I did try the DVI using my JTV 59 that was pretty cool as well though I did notice things sounded thinner using this method of hookup for the guitar vrs a regular guitar cable. Having the ability of assigning CC's to the JTV's knobs was very cool!

I said quick so there it is... There is a lot of other things that I haven't messed with like the looper and effects loops mic input etc etc. I may do that later or I may not.

Some of you might disagree with me on this and that's fine, it's all subjective right? I'm looking at it from the point of view as a usable tool and the Helix is a usable tool plain and simple. The Helix offers a lot of conveniences that the AX8 does not but I also feel that it was designed to target different type of player with the different options it has, options are good!.

Now... the sentence that everyone is waiting for. If I had to pit the Helix against the AX8 which I don't have just yet, based on my knowledge of having used an Axe FX for so long in the context of a full band I seriously doubt you will hear the differences between the two after having spent time with either device. Having said that, on their own under a critical listening environment I would have to give the nod to FAS. I think the FAS algos are superior in this respect with more depth and clarity in the note structures and harmonic content.

So, there it is my take on the Helix after having been a FAS Fan Boy, Kool Aid drinker whatever you want to call it for so long and really not a line 6 user until now the Helix is a contender to the right person and I feel has earned a place in the music industry, I'd say it's more like game on not game over, well done Line 6 it's about time!.


Thanks for posting this . . . very nice review. I have been going back and forth about getting a Helix. I am late to the AX8 waitlist ( 2/7/16 . .I'll be in an Old Folks Home drooling on myself by the time I get an invite). I have seen a few Helixes on Sweetwaters site with 10% off as they were demos. I almost jumped at one but hesitated. I have owned plenty of Line 6 gear in the past ( Vetta, Vetta II, POD HD 500, DT 25, and currently have the POD HD 500x, Variax 700). I have developed a love/hate relationship with Line 6 which is why I have been skeptical of the hype about the Helix. Yes, its a more powerful bit of gear than anything they've done in the past. The joystick looks like the weak link on the interface as to when it breaks. And I'm glad they finally decided to up their game. BUT, my experience with their stuff is that after some firmware updates the DSP bogs down. I have been hoping against hope for a while now that Roland would get off their dead arses and redo the VG 99 but that looks like it will not happen.

I often have said that Line 6 has done for guitar tone what Burger King has done for nutrition, mainly, made a virtue of convienience at the expense of quality . Landfills are full of Spyder amps and old PODs. But when I go to EBay even the older AX FX Ultras are still fetching pretty high prices, which tells me something about the quality of FAS gear. I have never owned any FAS stuff but can wait for a while. I am a bit concerned when I see multiple posts on here about running out of DSP on the AX8, with the reverbs being the biggest DSP hogs. I think the chips in the Helix and the AX8 are identical ( 450mz SHARC). If not, by all means correct me on this . But since the amp and effects sims on the AX8 are the same ones from the AX FX II XL which has 40% more processing power I'm wondering if it might be wishful thinking that in the long run the DSP power on the AX8 will be up to it.

I've been to see Adrian Belew a bunch of times, back when he was using his Johnson Millennium 150 and Vetta II combo and a big semi circle of pedals in front of him. Then I saw him when he swapped over to his AX FX Ultra and the difference in the sound was like night and day, and all those pedals were gone. I was very impressed by what I heard.

So . . . hope springs eternal. Peace.
 
The MFC has a LOT more switches, so you can program every preset the same. The AX8 is totally different. If you use 20 presets and assign your switches very differently in all those presets, you need a photographic memory.

Essentially, you're talking apples and oranges regarding your MFC and the AX8.

But if you ( with Axe-Fx II and MFC ) program those 20 presets and assign your switches very differently in all those presets, you would not need a photographic memory?
 
But if you ( with Axe-Fx II and MFC ) program those 20 presets and assign your switches very differently in all those presets, you would not need a photographic memory?

That's not how the MFC works with the Axe FX, so no. In the rack unit/MFC setup, button 7, for example will be set to Scene 1/2 on every preset. The IA's are global, not preset-specific. So you after you set it up you can label with gaffers tape or magnet labels or just have a good memory. :)
-
Austin
 
That's not how the MFC works with the Axe FX, so no. In the rack unit/MFC setup, button 7, for example will be set to Scene 1/2 on every preset. The IA's are global, not preset-specific. So you after you set it up you can label with gaffers tape or magnet labels or just have a good memory. :)
-
Austin
Sorry, misunderstood the meaning then.
 
But if you ( with Axe-Fx II and MFC ) program those 20 presets and assign your switches very differently in all those presets, you would not need a photographic memory?

My understanding is that the MFC doesn't allow you to freely assign footswitches. I could be wrong.
 
That's not how the MFC works with the Axe FX, so no. In the rack unit/MFC setup, button 7, for example will be set to Scene 1/2 on every preset. The IA's are global, not preset-specific. So you after you set it up you can label with gaffers tape or magnet labels or just have a good memory. :)
-
Austin

I wasn't wrong. It works when you have a ton of switches.
 
To quote Mr Petty: "The waiting is the hardest part." Checking my emails several times a day and reading this forum looking for clues when my name will be up on the list. Aarrgghh.

I found a local guy who offered to let me come over an test out his Helix. So I did. It was pretty impressive on several levels... bells and whistles. Better than the HD500x I had for a few days, but it still had hints of the fizz on the higher gain settings that so turned me off from the HD500X. I am sure I could live with the clean sounds and the delays, reverbs, and modulation effects, but the overdrive pedals were not as impressive.

I started hearing complaints on the internet about sqweekie pedal, difficulty in updating firmware, and the one I was observing blanked out in the middle of tweeking and had to be rebooted.

Also, while the routing and squibbles are cool, I question the knobs ability to hold up after a year or so of tweeking.

Anyway, I watched several YouTube demos and almost went over to the dark side. But I am back, impatiently waiting for my name to come up on the waiting list. Many years ago I had the Boss GT8 when I bought an Ax Ultra - it was night and day improvement.
One word. WAIT!!!
 
The AX8 has some big advantages over the MFC. It is purpose-built to be self contained. It doesn't need to offer extensive control of the entire universe of MIDI devices (though it can send some generic MIDI messages) and it was also designed many years later, with all of the latest features in mind proactively. I don't think there's much point in comparing the two further.
 
Also, just a quick note to mirror one from another thread: things are picking up nicely with lots more invitations going out.
I would have loved to have one of those top of the shelf units here, but I'm not complaining about my current setup.
Gigs keep coming and going...
selfie.jpg
 
My Helix came yesterday. I had a few hours to noodle with it...Pretty cool. The label making thing is cool. They have some nice delays too. That being said. I still love Fractal stuff too. And can't wait for the AX8 to arrive. One thing about the Helix also that is cool is the Stomp box mode. So you can make very quick additions or subtractions on the fly
 
Thanks for posting this . . . very nice review. I have been going back and forth about getting a Helix. I am late to the AX8 waitlist ( 2/7/16 . .I'll be in an Old Folks Home drooling on myself by the time I get an invite). I have seen a few Helixes on Sweetwaters site with 10% off as they were demos. I almost jumped at one but hesitated. I have owned plenty of Line 6 gear in the past ( Vetta, Vetta II, POD HD 500, DT 25, and currently have the POD HD 500x, Variax 700). I have developed a love/hate relationship with Line 6 which is why I have been skeptical of the hype about the Helix. Yes, its a more powerful bit of gear than anything they've done in the past. The joystick looks like the weak link on the interface as to when it breaks. And I'm glad they finally decided to up their game. BUT, my experience with their stuff is that after some firmware updates the DSP bogs down. I have been hoping against hope for a while now that Roland would get off their dead arses and redo the VG 99 but that looks like it will not happen.

I often have said that Line 6 has done for guitar tone what Burger King has done for nutrition, mainly, made a virtue of convienience at the expense of quality . Landfills are full of Spyder amps and old PODs. But when I go to EBay even the older AX FX Ultras are still fetching pretty high prices, which tells me something about the quality of FAS gear. I have never owned any FAS stuff but can wait for a while. I am a bit concerned when I see multiple posts on here about running out of DSP on the AX8, with the reverbs being the biggest DSP hogs. I think the chips in the Helix and the AX8 are identical ( 450mz SHARC). If not, by all means correct me on this . But since the amp and effects sims on the AX8 are the same ones from the AX FX II XL which has 40% more processing power I'm wondering if it might be wishful thinking that in the long run the DSP power on the AX8 will be up to it.

I've been to see Adrian Belew a bunch of times, back when he was using his Johnson Millennium 150 and Vetta II combo and a big semi circle of pedals in front of him. Then I saw him when he swapped over to his AX FX Ultra and the difference in the sound was like night and day, and all those pedals were gone. I was very impressed by what I heard.

So . . . hope springs eternal. Peace.


No more wait, I recently went to SFO and I bougth at eBay an AX8 in mint condition. I have own almost every piece of gear in almost 30 years of guitar playing, I still own about 40 pedals (Eventide timefactor, japan boss pedals from the 80's...) and in the last years I decided to move back to my old but reliable set of pedals. I was looking for an FAS a long time, but never had the chance to play with one. Finaly decided to buy the Ax8 and man, I have to say that ALL my dreams became true with this FAS Ax8. It is small, light, AWESOME sound quality. Cristal clear sounds, EXCELENT drives. I spent few days configuring my own presets and got to say that Im amazed.

About CPU, I see it not as a weakness but as a strength, becuase the unit allerts you about cpu usage. And the only thing that drain a little more CPU is the reverb. If you choose a normal reverb it will usualy use between 5-20% of cpu. With high resolution it will be around +8. You have lots of reverb types, the spring (large, mid or small) for example have only 5-8% cpu usage. More complex reverbs in high resolution can use up to 30% but you have MANY ways to kepp cpu usage lower than 80% in a single preset. I have a Preset with reverb in high resolution, delay, trem, EQ, Drives and Mod Delay working with 83% of CPU usage. And IF you need more blocks of effects, you have plenty of banks and presets.
You can use the X/Y switching too, it keep things draining less cpu than adding new blocks.

Keep in mind that this unit is not for someone who need 20 effects in a ultra-complex chain, but it can handle with almost PERFECTION almost EVERY single tone I had to go for in less than 10 days of tweaking the unit.

So THANK you a lot to the folks that have posted examples, presets, comments and texts explaining things here and at youtube, and thanks/congrats to the FRactal Audio Team. Good job guys, very well done !!!

I hope I can post some of my presets here soon.

Cheers, Jack.
 
My Helix came yesterday. I had a few hours to noodle with it...Pretty cool. The label making thing is cool. They have some nice delays too. That being said. I still love Fractal stuff too. And can't wait for the AX8 to arrive. One thing about the Helix also that is cool is the Stomp box mode. So you can make very quick additions or subtractions on the fly

I had Helix for few days just to check it out with my Friedman BE100 with 4CM , but on last day it got "black screen of death" and refused to recover by factory reset etc.. so sent back to the shop and don't even looking back..
And those gaps between presets are huge to my ears ! Impossible to use it live on pro stage.. Also had huge issues with switching channels on my Friedman BE100 with it's channel switching out.. Expression pedals values connected to helix got crazy when connected EXT Amps out on Helix to BE100 channel switch out.. Maybe helix II will work one day properly.. This version is useless for me, in spite of nice user interface and 4 effect loops etc.. Nice ideas but chinese made :-/ . FAS units are on completely deferent level ..
 
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