AustinBuddy Video: How to Properly Set Preset Levels

Thanks Rex. It just seems like zero on the VU is the same thing as -12 in a DAW so I am wondering why use the DAW?
 
addedc said:
Thanks Rex. It just seems like zero on the VU is the same thing as -12 in a DAW so I am wondering why use the DAW?
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That's a big question. Bigger than just meter levels. :)

Why use a DAW? I only use a DAW when I want to do something that the AX8 can't (like recording, for instance). Setting preset levels isn't one of those things. ;)
 
austinbuddy said:
Well technically, you "can" run your AX8 at Noon -- but when you do, using a Fractal factory preset (or my TonePack), what level do you see being output into a DAW or mixer? It will be low, like -18db or even less. You want headroom but you also want a nice level going out of the AX8 into a Mixer or PA, because you don't want the mixer guys adding mic preamp gain or EQ on their end to compensate and make it louder -- they should view it like a keyboard signal in that respect, it should come in plenty loud. Sound guys are not all hip to the AX8 and they treat it like a guitar mic from an amp sometimes coming into a board and then add stuff like they would for a real amp -- NO!

If you touch the GAIN or the MASTER VOLUME, you change the present tone/sound. However, if you change the LEVEL, it does not change the sound BUT because the sound is getting quieter or louder, it can fool your ears into thinking the sound/tone is changing, although it's not -- that is Fletcher Munson at work some. I've had presets that sound bad at low volume that when pulled up on LEVEL and played live magically came alive and sounded killer -- and vice versa.

Which is why, if you want to gig with presets, you must dial them in at gig volume - at least 92db. You'll be glad you did. You will also find the Cab Block Low cut and High Cut to be your best friend for those loud live gig sounds -- use those BEFORE ever messing with the Bass/Middle/Treble/Presence stuff -- do that as last resort (at least with the TonePack).

The reality is, except for crushing metal stuff, from a real speaker cab there is very little guitar below 100 hz or above 6K. Mixers will pull those out to get a guitar to sit in the mix. So use the cab Block that way. I set most Cab bocks to cut at 40hz and didn't touch the Hi Cut unless especially sizzle-ly, but in hind sight I kinda wish I had gone ahead and done that -- maybe next time!

I may be repeating myself in this thread, if so I apologize, but these are important concepts that can't be said enough if you want to get amazingly great sounds the AX8/Axe-Fx box is capable of.
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Thanks so much for the detailed answer. Truly appreciated!
 
addedc said:
Thanks Rex. It just seems like zero on the VU is the same thing as -12 in a DAW so I am wondering why use the DAW?
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Great question. Rex is right as always!

Some of us are always running our Fractal's output through consoles or DAWs, and for us it is easier to look at that rather than go the unit hardware to find the VU meter there/fool with the front panel. Also, if you use a DAW, you can switch presets checking levels with abandon on your unit and not worry about having to constantly check the hardware, just watch the fader.

It really is set-up dependent, which is why I included all methods in the video best I could. Some people just have the AX8 or Axe-Fx and nothing else -- then the VU meters are the way to go. I think I can do it a little more precisely on a DAW though across a wide range of presets....just easier for me.
 
Thanks for the answer, Austinbuddy. I only use a DAW occasionally (and somewhat painfully) so was wondering. I see the advantage if you are leveling a lot of presets. Thanks for all you do.
 
Hey Austin, great video! I had a quick follow-up question.

I'm using an AX8 and sending the left 1/4" TRS out into the line input on my Apollo Twin. Now the Apollo twin has combo jacks, so using an XLR will send the signal through its mic preamp, and it's possible to "Accidentally" turn on the phantom power, so this is why I'm 100% using the line input.

However, on the Apollo twin, the line input is not set-it-and-forget-it-- you can still dial in gain on the line. When the line input is turned all the way down to it's minimum, the console reads 10db (unity gain). In this case, for recording, would I want to keep the line input all the way down, at 10db when dialing in presets and recording?

Any insight you might have on this would be much appreciated. Thanks again for the helpful video!
 
Yes you definately want to use rhe Unity gain setting. Again, if your presets in Ax8 average -12db at the XLR output then that is what you want to see in the Apollo and into your console and recoording level.

Don’t increase the AX8 signal into or in DA to make it louder to monitor or listen to, instead, just raise either The track fader or the master fader, or your monitoring amp. Make sense?

You might want to check into how to use the S/PDIF output into the Apollo Twin (I do) — but need a powered convertor box to go from the Ax8 RCA S/PDIF coaxial cable into the TosLink optical input on the Apollo Twin. They are not expensive on Amazon.com and keeping the signal pure digital coming out of Ax8 into DAW is optimal awesome.
 
I think I found the answer. I am going into a Komplete Audio 6 so I had to set the Out 1 to -10? So will this work for me to set my presets for live use? I go direct for live.
 
Brues said:
When I turn the Output 1 all the way up I get clipping. Not sure what I am doing wrong.
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This method requires you to adjust all your presets so you are able to turn out 1 all the way up. It is not the “factory intended” way to turn out 1 all the way up. This is just another way to do it which requires changing how you create all your presets.
 
addedc said:
Thanks Rex. It just seems like zero on the VU is the same thing as -12 in a DAW so I am wondering why use the DAW?
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If I'm not mistaken the meters on the Utility page do not show S/PDIF specifically so I assume it's levels are in with R1 and L1? Either way that's also your XLR outputs.

For me, I record mainly with S/PDIF but also use unbalanced Outs 1 and 2 occasionally. I use XLR outs for live. So to compare S/PDIF and XLR output levels I used my DAW.

Not everyone may need to do that but for me that was my reasoning. :)
 
chris said:
This method requires you to adjust all your presets so you are able to turn out 1 all the way up. It is not the “factory intended” way to turn out 1 all the way up. This is just another way to do it which requires changing how you create all your presets.
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My presets are set up using the VU meter and there is no way I could turn the Output up all the way for live use. Would clip every mixer I've ever used. If there is a secret to this, I'd love to know it, but I couldn't make it work using only the VU meter
 
David Brewster said:
My presets are set up using the VU meter and there is no way I could turn the Output up all the way for live use. Would clip every mixer I've ever used. If there is a secret to this, I'd love to know it, but I couldn't make it work using only the VU meter
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same here. i think this method uses a different meter, something outside of the AX8. that sets it much lower than the built-in VU meter does, which allows the out 1 knob to turn up all the way in general. i personally don't do this, and i just use the Out 1 Knob as a volume control, usually way down at 9 o' clock - far from all the way up.

this just isn't the method for what i do, but it has worked for others. you just have to go all in and change all of your presets.
 
But it does seem to be how the factoty presets are done doesn’t it? When i check them, like Austinbuddy says they are all at -12db on the meter in Logic. Or pretty close to that
 
Brues said:
But it does seem to be how the factoty presets are done doesn’t it? When i check them, like Austinbuddy says they are all at -12db on the meter in Logic. Or pretty close to that
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Anybody checked the factory presets on the built in VU meter? I suppose I'll take a look when I get home tonight.
 
addedc said:
Thanks for the video, Austin Buddy and for all your great input on this forum. Other than my wife, I am the first to admit I am a moron. I went and reacquired all my DAW skills to check levels, but then I also tried checking them with the internal VU meters. It looks like the zero line on the internal VU meter is the same thing as -12 in my Studio One DAW. Am I missing something that the internal VU meters don't do the same thing, a little more conveniently?
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I have been able to generate internal clipping on my Axe GX2 at the -12db level and I cannot figure out why. Have carefully followed instructions for input and output level setting, but can still have problems with some presets? Anyone had this experience and any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?
 
Shane14 said:
I have been able to generate internal clipping on my Axe GX2 at the -12db level and I cannot figure out why. Have carefully followed instructions for input and output level setting, but can still have problems with some presets? Anyone had this experience and any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?
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Do you mean that the Axe's output clip LED is lighting? If so, you're clipping the Axe's outputs (not sure what a "GX2" is, though :)). When you get the clipping, look at the Axe's VU meter. It'll be reading way high. That's what you need to fix.
 
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