AustinBuddy Video: How to Properly Set Preset Levels

[austinbuddy]

Question on volume. So when I set my output 1 on my axe to noon some of the patches are ear bleeding loud. I only have my frfr monitors(presonnus Sceptre 8) turned up to 3. I assume you'd recommend keeping the output level at noon. On the patches that are so loud, do you recommend me turn my monitors down even farther, or is better to just adjust the level in the amp block?

If you plan to use the same preset for both recording in a DAW as well as Live, then I would not touch the Amp Block in Naked Amps presets -- it's set to put out at -12db. Instead, I'd reduce the volume on your monitors further myself.

 

[Rex]

I don't do any recording. Does turning your monitors down to 1 or 2 have a negative impact or is it still better to go that route. I noticed when i turn down the amp block to my quieter level the VU meter isn't close to hitting the line?

Keep the Amp block set to read around 0 VU. If your monitors are playing too loud, turn down the physical Output knob on the AX8. That's what it's there for.

 

[Rex]

Mine is an Axe FX not an Ax8. In other posts Austin Buddy has said to keep the Output level at noon or 11:30.

You do that to make the Axe-Fx's analog output level equal to its digital output level. That only matters when you're recording—and in some recording situations, it doesn't matter so much.

When you're just playing through monitors, set the Output Level to whatever volume you want. That's way more convenient than reaching around behind each monitor every time you want to change volume.

 

[chris]

I noticed when i turn down the amp block to my quieter level the VU meter isn't close to hitting the line?

remember that the line in the middle of the VU meter isn't a "correct" level or anything like that. it is a reference point that gives you 20dB of headroom before clipping internally. it just happens to be a spot on that VU meter. AustinBuddy created his presets using a different meter, but the concept is the same.

the goal is to have your presets be the same level, at least the ones you WANT to be the same level. from there, you want some louder and some quieter. it's up to you what point you want that to be. following AustinBuddy's method, your presets might not hit the line in the VU meter - again, just some reference point that doesn't affect tone or anything else.

 

[austinbuddy]

My suggestions:

- For the 700+ Naked Amps TonePack presets avoid adjusting the Amp Block Level at all costs, those have been set for a reason. Try to leave that alone at all costs.

- If you are recording into a DAW with Axe-Fx, leave Output1 at noon. (Does not apply for Ax8)

- If you are playing through monitors at home and it's too loud with Output1 at noon Axe-Fx, FIRST, try to turn down the monitors to level you want. If that does not work easily for you, then SECOND, turning down the Ouput1 knob less than noon is fine and will not affect the tone; just remember to turn it backup to Noon if you want to record into a DAW son you can get the output at -12db or so into your DAW.

- At gigs with drums etc., you'll need the volume, so I assume this is not an issue in that situation. I have been known to turn my output1 knob UP past noon as the gig progresses (hahahaha).

 

[TimMcG1011]

My suggestions:

- For the 700+ Naked Amps TonePack presets avoid adjusting the Amp Block Level at all costs, those have been set for a reason. Try to leave that alone at all costs.

- If you are recording into a DAW with Axe-Fx, leave Output1 at noon. (Does not apply for Ax8)

- If you are playing through monitors at home and it's too loud with Output1 at noon Axe-Fx, FIRST, try to turn down the monitors to level you want. If that does not work easily for you, then SECOND, turning down the Ouput1 knob less than noon is fine and will not affect the tone; just remember to turn it backup to Noon if you want to record into a DAW son you can get the output at -12db or so into your DAW.

- At gigs with drums etc., you'll need the volume, so I assume this is not an issue in that situation. I have been known to turn my output1 knob UP past noon as the gig progresses (hahahaha).

Great information Austin, thanks!

In your video you said to use an app to check that you're running at 92db. So with my AX8 (for live settings) I should run the Output 1 and 2 at max, keep my Level at around -12db and adjust my FRFR cab to run at 92db? Is that correct? I've been running my AX8 output at about noon and my levels way above -12db. Sounds great in the room with my FRFR, but on a recent gig the sound engineer said I was clipping (FOH). Your advice makes a lot of sense and so I'm going to go back and re-tweak all of my presets. Wanted to make sure I understand the last part (92db) before I start tearing up all my presets

Thanks very much

 

[Rex]

In your video you said to use an app to check that you're running at 92db. So with my AX8 (for live settings) I should run the Output 1 and 2 at max, keep my Level at around -12db and adjust my FRFR cab to run at 92db? Is that correct? I've been running my AX8 output at about noon and my levels way above -12db. Sounds great in the room with my FRFR, but on a recent gig the sound engineer said I was clipping (FOH). Your advice makes a lot of sense and so I'm going to go back and re-tweak all of my presets. Wanted to make sure I understand the last part (92db) before I start tearing up all my presets

No need to jump through all those hoops to get your presets running at 92 dB. Buddy listens to his presets at that level so he can know what they'll sound like played live.

And setting all your presets so Level is at -12 dB will backfire on you. High-gain presets will need less Level than that to match the volume of lower-gain presets.

 

[TimMcG1011]

No need to jump through all those hoops to get your presets running at 92 dB. Buddy listens to his presets at that level so he can know what they'll sound like played live.

And setting all your presets so Level is at -12 dB will backfire on you. High-gain presets will need less Level than that to match the volume of lower-gain presets.

Thanks for the reply. I do get that the -12db is a suggested level and everything would need to be adjusted. Just wanted to confirm that the 92db he referred to is for gig volume. The gain/master would need to be adjusted for "fletcher munson" and the level will need to be tweaked depending on amp model, etc. But then I believe he uses a db meter to check he's at around 92db so he knows what things will sound like at gig volume.

Pretty sure I'm clear, but never hurts to confirm. Like I said, I've been running my AX8 at noon (output1). Pays to ask more questions even if they seem obvious sometimes

Thanks

 

[TimMcG1011]

Started re-leveling all my presets with Max output level. I have a very busy weekend ahead of me. I'll have to send the family out shopping for the day.

 

[Rex]

Just wanted to confirm that the 92db he referred to is for gig volume.

Confirmed.

The gain/master would need to be adjusted for "fletcher munson"...

No. Gain and Master Volume determine how much and what kind of distortion you have. The Fletcher-Munson effect is about EQ, so you use tone controls for that.

 

[NightWalker]

thank you for posting those videos!!

 

[austinbuddy]

Thanks for the reply. I do get that the -12db is a suggested level and everything would need to be adjusted. Just wanted to confirm that the 92db he referred to is for gig volume. The gain/master would need to be adjusted for "fletcher munson" and the level will need to be tweaked depending on amp model, etc. But then I believe he uses a db meter to check he's at around 92db so he knows what things will sound like at gig volume.

Pretty sure I'm clear, but never hurts to confirm. Like I said, I've been running my AX8 at noon (output1). Pays to ask more questions even if they seem obvious sometimes

Thanks

Well technically, you "can" run your AX8 at Noon -- but when you do, using a Fractal factory preset (or my TonePack), what level do you see being output into a DAW or mixer? It will be low, like -18db or even less. You want headroom but you also want a nice level going out of the AX8 into a Mixer or PA, because you don't want the mixer guys adding mic preamp gain or EQ on their end to compensate and make it louder -- they should view it like a keyboard signal in that respect, it should come in plenty loud. Sound guys are not all hip to the AX8 and they treat it like a guitar mic from an amp sometimes coming into a board and then add stuff like they would for a real amp -- NO!

If you touch the GAIN or the MASTER VOLUME, you change the present tone/sound. However, if you change the LEVEL, it does not change the sound BUT because the sound is getting quieter or louder, it can fool your ears into thinking the sound/tone is changing, although it's not -- that is Fletcher Munson at work some. I've had presets that sound bad at low volume that when pulled up on LEVEL and played live magically came alive and sounded killer -- and vice versa.

Which is why, if you want to gig with presets, you must dial them in at gig volume - at least 92db. You'll be glad you did. You will also find the Cab Block Low cut and High Cut to be your best friend for those loud live gig sounds -- use those BEFORE ever messing with the Bass/Middle/Treble/Presence stuff -- do that as last resort (at least with the TonePack).

The reality is, except for crushing metal stuff, from a real speaker cab there is very little guitar below 100 hz or above 6K. Mixers will pull those out to get a guitar to sit in the mix. So use the cab Block that way. I set most Cab bocks to cut at 40hz and didn't touch the Hi Cut unless especially sizzle-ly, but in hind sight I kinda wish I had gone ahead and done that -- maybe next time!

I may be repeating myself in this thread, if so I apologize, but these are important concepts that can't be said enough if you want to get amazingly great sounds the AX8/Axe-Fx box is capable of.

 

[yek]

I totally get AustinBuddy’s approach to setting levels into a DAW, cranking the AX8’s output.

I agree though with Rex that this isn’t necessarily the best way to set and manage levels in other environments, such as gigging.

It’s time for a comprehensive guide about managing levels, covering the input stage, and the digital domain (leveling and preventing clipping), and the output stage (to DAW, to power amp, to mixer), plus Eff.Send/Return...

 

[austinbuddy]

That’s what the intent of my video was Yek but we all would love to see you do a comprehensive guide, like you did with amps and drives, if you are so inclined!

 

[yek]

That’s what the intent of my video was

You're so right. Sorry Buddy, that was not the intent of my comment at all. It had been a while since I watched your video, I forgot its broad topic.

Having said that, I'm more a of a "words" guy than video. The wiki and even the manuals could use an expanded section on levels.

 

[jarabuandi]

Hi everyone:

This video has been on my to-do list for some time to complete. I find some newer Fractal users don't follow these useful guidelines when dialing in sounds, and then express unhappiness about their self-designed preset levels or tone when playing live, for example. We sure don't want any of that!

The full 17 minute version is below.

Just took that amount of time to go over and demonstrate concepts and provide examples, even after editing; forgive all the jumpy editing -- it would have been even longer with out the cuts. Ironically, my video tutorial on programming a killer Jim '67 London preset on the Axe-Fx was also 17 minutes -- TED Talk lengths I guess!)



My hope is this will really help you set your own presets levels great for both DAW recording and for live stage use. This is all the same methodology I used in making the 700+ Naked Amps TonePack and leveling all those preset tones consistently for playback.

Enjoy, and I'll try to answer any other questions you might have.

NOTE: Edited video for some fixes.

WOW, great video! Thanks for taking the time and making it. One question though. I don' record and only use my Axe-fx for live use. I've got my Output 1 echo to Output 2 and use Output 1 for my cab and Output 2 for FOH.

How do I go about that with regards to the 92 DB? Which one do I use?

Cheers mate.

 

[austinbuddy]

Having said that, I'm more a of a "words" guy than video. The wiki and even the manuals could use an expanded section on levels.

Yek -- yes, we need both! My video is still long to watch and key points can get lost....laying this out in step by step from signal beginning to end would help a lot of folks!

 

[austinbuddy]

WOW, great video! Thanks for taking the time and making it. One question though. I don' record and only use my Axe-fx for live use. I've got my Output 1 echo to Output 2 and use Output 1 for my cab and Output 2 for FOH.

How do I go about that with regards to the 92 DB? Which one do I use?

Cheers mate.

A very good question. Your cab may sound different than the FOH.

Since the audience is listening to FOH, that's where I'd do my own 92+ db tests if possible to dial in preset sound -- or your on-stage FRFR monitors.

 

[addedc]

Thanks for the video, Austin Buddy and for all your great input on this forum. Other than my wife, I am the first to admit I am a moron. I went and reacquired all my DAW skills to check levels, but then I also tried checking them with the internal VU meters. It looks like the zero line on the internal VU meter is the same thing as -12 in my Studio One DAW. Am I missing something that the internal VU meters don't do the same thing, a little more conveniently?

 

[Rex]

It looks like the zero line on the internal VU meter is the same thing as -12 in my Studio One DAW. Am I missing something that the internal VU meters don't do the same thing, a little more conveniently?

The zero line on the internal VU meters is intended to be a strong signal that still gives you plenty of headroom. The zero line in a DAW means that you're right on the verge of nasty ugly clipping. So -12 in a DAW means you still have some headroom.