• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Are there any FRFR solutions out there that can compete with a 2x12 + power amp?

Georgy

Inspired
OK, let me re-phrase that..

Part 1... Curious to know if there are any FRFR solutions (passive or active) that can compare to a 2x12 cab + power amp (either valve or solid state)??

Part 2.. Those of you that can speak from experience, how does it compare tonally? And volume-wise?

Thanks!
 

vick1000

Inspired
Totally different animals. You can get similar sound pressure, maybe even a bit more with high end FRFR, but tonally there are very far apart. Which is better is a personal opinion, I prefer a traditional amp tone, so I prefer a power amp and guitar cab. If you like the FRFR experience and versatility, you can't get that with a guitar amp/cab setup.
 

lwknives

Experienced
OK, let me re-phrase that..

Part 1... Curious to know if there are any FRFR solutions (passive or active) that can compare to a 2x12 cab + power amp (either valve or solid state)??

Part 2.. Those of you that can speak from experience, how does it compare tonally? And volume-wise?

Thanks!
1. Are talking volume? If so then yes! Most PA type FRFR speakers have a longer through than guitar speakers so you get more volume for speakers size. I like my EV ELX115Ps better than my old Mesa Dual Roadster 2x12 combo. No complaints as far as volume.

2. FRFR is a totally different experience from standing next to a guitar cab! Guitar cabs are beamy and FRFR has a very wide despersion so unless you have the cab aimed right at your head the FRFR is going to sound much brighter.
All the guitar tones you have ever heard recorded are FRFR so if there is a recording you want to sound like FRFR is the only way to get it. It will alsways sound a bit different than standing next to your cab though.
 

hbucker

Inspired
I agree with what's posted above. I too, prefer an "amp in the room" vibe. In it's purest form, a power amp and cab is the way to go.

But I've also played around, fairly successfully, with getting decent amp in the room vibe from a full range PA monitor.

Do a little research on the frequency response of the real speakers your IR is simulating. Then bring your High and Low Cuts on the Cab block down to those parameters. Fiddle with the 12 and 6 db cut also. IMO, there is no need for extra high end on the FRFR when there is so much ability to dial back any frequencies you want to. There is simply no reason to put frequencies through your monitor that a real guitar cab cannot (or isn't expected to) generate. IMO, of course... If you're lazy like me, just start with your low parameter at 150 and high at 4500. Then adjust to taste. These adjustments will be necessary depending on the amp and IR you're using.

I like to do the above to dial out the hi-fi vibe of the tone anyway. Doing this loses some low end punch that can be compensated for (in a very realistic way) by using the proximity on the microphone and moving it close to the speaker. Adjusting the proximity frequency dials this in even more.

Since I've started doing this, the in-room experience for me has improved considerably. My guitar tone blends much better with my band at practice too.

Most here know lots more than I do about all of this stuff. But this has worked for me. But I also have a 2x12 cab and a power amp, just in case ;)
 

chrisjnyc

Power User
OK, let me re-phrase that..

Part 1... Curious to know if there are any FRFR solutions (passive or active) that can compare to a 2x12 cab + power amp (either valve or solid state)??

Part 2.. Those of you that can speak from experience, how does it compare tonally? And volume-wise?

Thanks!

Plenty of FRFR options out there, you just need to try them... I would say to go with a Xitone\Matrix\CLR as they are basically a 1x12 cab with a solid state power amp.
 

PhillyGTR

Member
OK, let me re-phrase that..

Part 1... Curious to know if there are any FRFR solutions (passive or active) that can compare to a 2x12 cab + power amp (either valve or solid state)??

Part 2.. Those of you that can speak from experience, how does it compare tonally? And volume-wise?

Thanks!
I just did a gig where I played both. I used a QSC K10 and also a Quilter Toneblock 200 into a Mesa 1x12 loaded w/ EV12L. I guess it's just too many years playing guitar amps because the K10 was just too weird tonally - too bright and too woofy. Once I plugged into the Mesa cab I was loving my sound. I'm sure I will revisit the FRFR thing again but for now it's amp and cab for me.
 

Jul

Inspired
In my opinion / experience there is no compelling reason to not have both FR/FR cabs and an amp + guitar cab simultaneously connected to the Axe FX.... cover all the bases and have the ability to respectively blend to taste depending on the venue and surrounding instruments in the band..
 

yek

Legend!
In my opinion / experience there is no compelling reason to not have both FR/FR cabs and an amp + guitar cab simultaneously connected to the Axe FX.... cover all the bases and have the ability to respectively blend to taste depending on the venue and surrounding instruments in the band..

The quite compelling reason is portability.
 

Jul

Inspired
The quite compelling reason is portability.
Portability perhaps...I'm not on the road every week. But I do so love the sound of adding my Fender blues jr.and external mesa 1X12 cab (also fitted with a G12H30). I'll pay the price of an one extra walk from car to stage at a local gig once / twice a month or so - for the tone(s) I get to experience..
 

GBM

Member
folks with the new ASM-12, have you had the experience of playing with a CLR? If so, please let me know your experience between the two. Thanks!
 

maxdown

Fractal Fanatic
To the OP: 2x12? Make that: 1x12.
I recently fitted a Celestion G12-H30 (150 watts!) in my 1x2 Port City and it sounds awesome
@yek - How does the Redback compare to the EVM12L?

I have 2 Marshall 1x12 (1912) cabs loaded with EVMs - I replaced the stock Celestion G12B 150W 'specially made for Marshall' speakers because one died due probably to the cabs being stored long term in less than ideal conditions.

I do like the EVMs a lot (used to have a Mesa Mk3 with EVM) but the 'bite' is not as prominent as the previous Celestions - in fact the G12B - 150 had maybe too much. The effiency of the EVMs however is excellent - same strength signal hitting them as a lesser speaker just has this great jump in perceived volume.

Going on the spec - the G12H Redback would seem to roll off the highs quite a bit before the EVM - but then again so did the original G12B and they could have cut your ears off.

So if the Redbacks had a bit of sympathy towards the more Marshall type tone then even if just to reduce the weight of each cab I might give them a go.

(Obviously we're talking non FRFR use here - with either a AxeFX/Matrix GT1000FX rig and also a JMP1/Mesa 50/50 rig).
 

yek

Legend!
Totally different speakers...

In my 2x12s I have an EVM plus a high-power G12H clone. That’s a sound I prefer to the Redback, but the Redback absolutely holds its own. It’s bright enough (my clean tone is the Twin model) and certainly loud enough. The Redback is much lighter than the EVL.
 
Last edited:

muudrock

Experienced
The Friedman ASC-12 is the best I've found for this. I've always run a pwr amp/cab in addition to an FRFR monitor on stage. The Friedman cab does a great job of being a good mix of FRFR and standard guitar cab. So much so, I've stopped hauling the standard cab and the CLR I was using. I like the size, I love the sound, plenty loud and I like how it looks. It's not light but it is less to haul than my old set up.
I've hear the monitor wedge version (ASM-12) sounds good too.
 
Top Bottom